D&D 5E How does the errata on hiding affect the mask of the wild ability of the wood elf?

[ShadowSeeker]

With the errata on hiding you can hide within line of sight of an enemy at the DM's disgression when the enemy can't see you clearly enough.

Would't that mean that the mask of the wild ability is now obsolete, as everyone could hide while lighly obscured by fog or other things?

 

[Paraxis]

It's a matter of degree. Anyone can try to hide in dense foliage, a heavy snowstorm, pouring down rain a good distance away, and so on, situations the DM feels would allow for the potential to hide, elves can make a hide check while standing right next to you while in a normal rainstorm, light snowfall, less dense foliage, and so on.

At least that's how I would handle it.

I don't like how vague the stealth rules are and how much they rely on DM fiat, but it is what it is.

Everyone else try and apply real world 'logic' to the situation, elves get to hide in unbelievable situations because 'magic' and they are 'special'.

 

[PnPgamer]

In dnd, elves have always been the favourites. 2nd edition gave best racial abilities and good multiclass options, 3rd gsve lots of elf only prestiges and feats, fourth had 2 elf races to choose from, and fifth just keeps adding on sugar.

 

[transtemporal]

Would't that mean that the mask of the wild ability is now obsolete, as everyone could hide while lightly obscured by fog or other things?

It doesn't specifically say that everyone can now hide in dim light or lightly obscured squares, just whether the enemy can clearly see them or not (which I'm assuming is determined by the perception check).

 

[Uller]

DM decides when it is possible to hide. If you are an elf, light obscuration in foliage makes it possible. So it depends on the DM (which is not a very satisfactory answer).

For my table: You can hide when no one is able to see you or you have an ability that says you can hide. Your hiding ends when someone spots you. The moment someone _can_ see you (or can determine your location by other means, such as sound), that is when you make the Stealth vs. Perception check. If you win, you are not spotted at least long enough to gain some advantage.

For instance, if you round a corner into a cluttered and dimly lit alley, you can use your action to hide (assuming no one has line of sight or there is something to hide behind). When the person that was pursuing you rounds the corner and now has line of sight to you he might spot you. Now you make an opposed check (passive if he takes no action to spot you, rolled if he spends an action searching). If you win, you remain hidden.

Or maybe you want to peek out and fire your crossbow at the guard as he moves past you. Again...that is when you make your opposed check. If the guard is actively looking for you he gets to make a roll. If you win, you get advantage on the attack.

Mask of the wild lets you hide while only lightly obscured in foliage.

Again...at my table. The errata doesn't change anything because that is how it has always worked.

 

[Parmandur]

The difference us that the Wood Elf is like Barman.

"So that's what that feels like..."

 

[ShadowSeeker]

It doesn't specifically say that everyone can now hide in dim light or lightly obscured squares, just whether the enemy can clearly see them or not (which I'm assuming is determined by the perception check).

As I see it the perception check determines if your hide attempt is successful, not if you can try to hide.

So to me it seems that the mask of the wild ability is obsolete.

Before Errata: You can't try to hide when enemy can (could) see you
no line of sight / heavily obscured: everyone can try to hide
lightly obscured: you can't try to hide except for wood elf within natural phenomenon.

With Errata: You can try to hide as long as enemy can't see you clearly.
no line of sight / heavily or lightly obscured: everyone can try to hide

Thus mask of the wild has no effect.

 

[transtemporal]

With Errata: You can try to hide as long as enemy can't see you clearly.
no line of sight / heavily or lightly obscured: everyone can try to hide

Hmm the more I think about it, the more I think you might be correct.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I personally don't see any real change. On the 'see you clearly' issue... the errata mentions "when you are hiding", not "when you attempt to hide". So I take that to mean that requirements for attempting to hide have not changed-- you have to be out of line of sight or Heavily Obscured. Which means Mark of the Wild still has a purpose-- Wood Elves can attempt to hide when only Lightly Obscured by natural outdoor terrain.

It's only now when you *are* hidden and are attempting to do stuff that they changed the language a little. I think the issue was always whether you could lean out from behind a pillar from Hiding and attack with Advantage since you now could technically be "seen" when you made the attack. Some people would say that because you had been Hidden, your attack would get Advantage as you leaned out... others would say you wouldn't get Advantage because you'd be seen the moment you leaned out and thus lose the Hidden condition. By adding the "clearly", they put in a little natural language wiggle room to help the former make their case.

So for me nothing has changed. To gain the Hidden condition you need to make a DEX (Stealth) check while out of line of sight, or Heavily Obscured, and compare this number against any target's Passive Perception that might be in a position to hear/deduce the location of the character. Once you do so, you are Hidden, and thus your first attack from Hiding gains Advantage, assuming the target does not see you clearly. And to me, leaning out from behind a large item that blocks line-of-sight and firing a crossbow would be a perfect example of not being seen clearly by the target. And by the same token... as per the rules for Hiding on Page 177 that have not changed... a Hidden player can attempt to move up to a target and might be allowed to maintain their Hidden condition while doing so, if the DM allows it in that case. They also could technically be "seen" because there is no longer any terrain blocking line-of-sight and no facing rules to determine whether the target might glance in the character's direction or not... so here too the character could move up without blocking terrain because they aren't seen "clearly".

 

[Coredump]

Hmm the more I think about it, the more I think you might be correct.

I think you are mistaking 'clearly' with 'crystal clearly'. The implied wording (IMO) is they must be able to see you clearly 'enough'. ENough is a relative term, it is different for a wood elf than a human.