D&D 5E Stealth

[Celtavian]

Let me begin by saying that I allow the halfling rogue in my campaign to hide in combat behind a medium sized opponent, turn after turn. If a target is able to specifically watch the rogue without distraction (attacking someone else, or having to defend against an attack) the rogue is at disadvantage to hide. I do make the rogue beat the targets active perception in all cases where the target is aware of the rogues presence (they use passive in situations where they are surprised, or unaware of the rogue). I give the rogue sneak attack when they pop out to attack if they have successfully hidden.

I see a lot of people making a simulationist argument with regard to hiding. It is sort of amusing really. Flying horses, balls of fire shot from fingertips, demons and undead walking the earth, hacking at someone 4 times in 6 seconds with a sword, etc. None of that is a problem, but allowing a halfling to hide behind a human? Totally unrealistic!

I guess my point is, this is a fantasy game. Characters are supposed to be able to do things that are outside the realm of realism. When you watch Legolas walk on top of the snow in LoTR, is that a problem? How about Halfling Luck? Or, Lucky feat? Zero basis in reality, but they make the game more interesting by allowing characters to do things outside the realm of reality.

The fantasy rogue is sneaky. That is their thing. Why deny them what is arguibly the defining characterstic of their class while still allowing fireballs from wizards and multiple attacks from fighters (both of which are equally absurd).

It is my belief that my interpretation is closer to the designers intent than many others which have been posted. Of course, we will all have to wait for some sort of future clarification to find out for sure.

The one thing I do know, it is much more fun to play a rogue at my table that at some of the others I have read on this forum (also, I don't find it particularly unbalancing to allow repeated hide attempts given the rogue usually has an ally within 5 feet anyway).

Does the Halfing rogue say, "Surprise, bitch!", every time he jumps out from behind someone?

 

[CapnZapp]

Why do I keep reading how Stealth needs errata or clarifying or is plain broken for some folk?

I find it very serviceable. What am I missing?

Hello, original poster!

I would think that by now it is painfully clear what you have "missed "... [emoji6]

 

[Jaracove]

Hello, original poster!

I would think that by now it is painfully clear what you have "missed "... [emoji6]

As clear as mud!

 

[CapnZapp]

I guess that's as far as this discussion will go, at least until WotC makes their next attempt (5.5th edition? [emoji6])

 

[TDarien]

Logic and reasoning are distinct from memory. No deductive reasoning is required to access information that I have directly experienced and held in my immediate awareness. That is what is called short-term memory.
It's not a sense, and yet memory, along with the senses, is one of the processes by which you become aware of and interpret your surroundings. That is perception.

It most certainly is deductive reasoning. Your using your memory to fill in the gaps in your perception. You saw me go behind that pillar, there's nowhere else I can go without you seeing me, therefore, I must sill be there. You can call it whatever you want, but it absolutely is logic and deductive reasoning. You're skipping that step in the process. While that happens automatically for you, a less intelligent creature might not reach the same conclusion.

Your memory has nothing do do with your perception. At all.

The lack of any clear benefit may be an indication that hiding is inappropriate in this situation. Think about playing hide and seek. If someone who's "it" is cheating, and watches as you go to your hiding place, instead of covering his eyes, then you aren't hidden from him. He knows where you are, even if he can't see you anymore.
.

See here's the thing though. The lack of clear benefit doesn't necessarily mean there isn't any benefit. There could be possibilities. Like I mentioned earlier. Say I moved behind a pillar. There's no where for me to go, so I must still be there, according to you you still know my location. However, come around the pillar guess what, I'm not there! How did that happen?

What you didn't know is there was a secret door built into that pillar, and I ducked through it while I was obscured from your view. However, In order to do this undetected I must take the hide action. If I didn't, you would know I moved, because your other senses gave you clues.

Now, suppose you knew about the secret door and I did the same thing. I move behind the pillar and hide. Now, did I go through the secret door or not? You have no way of knowing, because your senses can't detect me. Situations like this is why it must be possible to hide, even if there is no clear way to move from the hiding spot. The hiding is not tied to the movement at all, as hiding is an action.

EDIT: Besides there's a better reason why the halfling should be able to hide behind a creature, even if she's observed going there. It's ing cool.

"Where the heck did she go? SHE WAS JUST THERE!!" *gets pelted with a sling* "OW!"

 

[cloa513]

Everyone knows they are in 3 foot square of which they occupy 2 foot square. Have their odds of being targetted improved or stayed the same from directly looking at them?

 

[Coredump]

Here's another that cropped up

Sneak Attack (page 96)
A 1st level Rogue fires his crossbow at a target that's in melee with a companion (and in normal range).

The target is not incapacitated, it's fair to say the target is distracted (he's in melee combat) and the Rogue doesn't have disadvantage. So does the Rogue add his +1d6 Sneak Attack damage if he hits with his crossbow ranged attack?

No disadvantage, and there is an ally within 5'.... so SA works.

 

[Coredump]

Um guys.... it appears a lot of the vitriol is based on an issue of semantics. So I suggest you skip past that part to see if there is any *subsantive* differences.


A PC is in a room with nothing but a crate. The PC ducks behind the crate and gets really quiet and tries to hide from the enemy Guard in the room.

One faction says "He can Hide, he is Hidden"
Other faction says "He can't Hide, they know where he is"

Okay.... lets skip over what term you use or don't use for that situation..... what is the result? What are the differences to gameplay if you call it "Hidden" or you call it "Behind a crate being quiet"?

For example:
Next turn, can that person shoot from the crate and get advantage?

 

[ExploderWizard]

Um guys.... it appears a lot of the vitriol is based on an issue of semantics. So I suggest you skip past that part to see if there is any *subsantive* differences.


A PC is in a room with nothing but a crate. The PC ducks behind the crate and gets really quiet and tries to hide from the enemy Guard in the room.

One faction says "He can Hide, he is Hidden"
Other faction says "He can't Hide, they know where he is"

Okay.... lets skip over what term you use or don't use for that situation..... what is the result? What are the differences to gameplay if you call it "Hidden" or you call it "Behind a crate being quiet"?

For example:
Next turn, can that person shoot from the crate and get advantage?

The situation is everything. In this case if the guard never detected the PC for whatever reason then yes, hiding behind the crate would be possible. If the guard was aware of the PC ducking behind the crate then being quiet doesn't mean anything. The Pc's location is known and the crate may still provide cover as a benefit but no advantage for hiding would apply.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Um guys.... it appears a lot of the vitriol is based on an issue of semantics. So I suggest you skip past that part to see if there is any *subsantive* differences.


A PC is in a room with nothing but a crate. The PC ducks behind the crate and gets really quiet and tries to hide from the enemy Guard in the room.

One faction says "He can Hide, he is Hidden"
Other faction says "He can't Hide, they know where he is"

Okay.... lets skip over what term you use or don't use for that situation..... what is the result? What are the differences to gameplay if you call it "Hidden" or you call it "Behind a crate being quiet"?

For example:
Next turn, can that person shoot from the crate and get advantage?

I think that line of thinking is what you're forced to do. That's why I said it's not bad or wrong or entirely inconsistent; it's just really weird because the rules seem to say two different things. It's like they sections were written by two different people who didn't talk to each other. Or, equally possible, the same person with six to eight months in between.