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D&D 5E How would you ensure longevity and sustainability for 5th Edition?
- Thread starter Patrick McGill
- Start date
Iosue
Legend
Actually, not unlike what WotC is currently doing.
Basically, I want a game that has a constant influx of new people. I want to make it easy for them to get into the game, and then allow them to get as deep as they want. So the Basic Rules, Starter Set and Players Handbook are my primary products. Everything else is designed to lead people back there.
So, twice a year I release a setting-specific sandboxy AP like Princes of the Apocalypse or Lost Mines. I make sure that while every adventure has a clear throughline that people can just "plug and play", they are also seeded with adventure hooks and locales that the purchasing groups can expand on their own. Each new AP details a certain section of, say, FR, with the locales fitting together like a puzzle. After, say, three years, I cap the setting off with a campaign setting, which basically collects the AP information into one box. Most of the development work on this has been done over the previous three years, so this is more a matter of reformatting. Then I move onto the next setting.
Like WotC, I tie the APs in with offerings in other media -- video games, board games, comics, novels. I also push AL much as they are currently doing so.
In the meantime, while the free Basic Rules and print product are handling the mainstream casual customer base, my website would cater to the hardcore, who keep telling me to shut up and take their money, but who represent too small a segment of the market to gear print product to. I would have free content much like you see now, but also paid content to cover such things as mini-adventures. So the AP for that season might have a dungeon locale that's not part of the main story. It's there for people to build on themselves OR if they are subscribers to the paid content, they have access to a map and key.
Basically, I want a game that has a constant influx of new people. I want to make it easy for them to get into the game, and then allow them to get as deep as they want. So the Basic Rules, Starter Set and Players Handbook are my primary products. Everything else is designed to lead people back there.
So, twice a year I release a setting-specific sandboxy AP like Princes of the Apocalypse or Lost Mines. I make sure that while every adventure has a clear throughline that people can just "plug and play", they are also seeded with adventure hooks and locales that the purchasing groups can expand on their own. Each new AP details a certain section of, say, FR, with the locales fitting together like a puzzle. After, say, three years, I cap the setting off with a campaign setting, which basically collects the AP information into one box. Most of the development work on this has been done over the previous three years, so this is more a matter of reformatting. Then I move onto the next setting.
Like WotC, I tie the APs in with offerings in other media -- video games, board games, comics, novels. I also push AL much as they are currently doing so.
In the meantime, while the free Basic Rules and print product are handling the mainstream casual customer base, my website would cater to the hardcore, who keep telling me to shut up and take their money, but who represent too small a segment of the market to gear print product to. I would have free content much like you see now, but also paid content to cover such things as mini-adventures. So the AP for that season might have a dungeon locale that's not part of the main story. It's there for people to build on themselves OR if they are subscribers to the paid content, they have access to a map and key.
pming
Legend
Hiya.
I'd say they need to toss the idea of "Lets do [this/whatever] with D&D! We'll make miiilllllleeeonnnnssss!!!! Muwahahahaha!" right out of their head, out the door, down the street, and into the river.
Unlike, well, pretty much every other 'hobby product' out there, RPG's are not self sustaining. I own the PHB, MM, DMG, and Starter Set for 5e. I also picked up the Fifth Edition Foes and Book of Lost Spells PDF's. This basically means that I have absolutely zero need to buy anything else from WotC ever again with regards to 5e. There is NOTHING that WotC can do that would "require" me to give them money. Ever. This is the true nature of the RPG industry, IMHO.
When the Wicked Witch of the East came into power (re: Lorraine Williams), she basically (with the help of a pair of brothers and a few other's of like mind in the TSR power structure) tried to take RPG's and treat them like any other "product". The idea that they could simply write stuff and people would just outright buy it was flawed from the start... once you have the core rules of a RPG game, you don't need anything else. Period. Full stop. With other hobby industries, say, the Model Railroading crowd, once you finish building a set after a year or two, you can just buy another sheet of 4x8x1 plywood and keep adding on...meaning you 'need' to keep buying stuff to continue your hobby. RPG's are not like that. The "equipment and stuff" you need is in you and your players heads; the equivalent would be being able to just "create" your new track, trees, grass and foliage, buildings, cars, people, cows, rocks, trains, etc without buying anything.
Anyway, I think they are actually sort of following my logic. I belive the core 'team' working on D&D is pretty small. This is good. They are keeping product production schedules waaaaay down. This is also good. This shows me that they may, just *may*, be thinking "It's the RPG industry. We aren't going to make millions on D&D like TSR did back in the 80's. Lets settle for 'sustained in-the-black' profit and we'll be fine. We can try and make the millions off of other D&D offshoots like video games, movies, and plastic cereal caddy's".
So, what I would do is... lower expectations of profit. Shoot for "good enough to keep us in the black, give everyone who works here a decent wage, three weeks paid vacation every year, and give our writers a LARGE amount of space to stretch their imagination wings". What I would *not* do? See 3.x/4e? Yeah, that. Don't do that.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
I'd say they need to toss the idea of "Lets do [this/whatever] with D&D! We'll make miiilllllleeeonnnnssss!!!! Muwahahahaha!" right out of their head, out the door, down the street, and into the river.
Unlike, well, pretty much every other 'hobby product' out there, RPG's are not self sustaining. I own the PHB, MM, DMG, and Starter Set for 5e. I also picked up the Fifth Edition Foes and Book of Lost Spells PDF's. This basically means that I have absolutely zero need to buy anything else from WotC ever again with regards to 5e. There is NOTHING that WotC can do that would "require" me to give them money. Ever. This is the true nature of the RPG industry, IMHO.
When the Wicked Witch of the East came into power (re: Lorraine Williams), she basically (with the help of a pair of brothers and a few other's of like mind in the TSR power structure) tried to take RPG's and treat them like any other "product". The idea that they could simply write stuff and people would just outright buy it was flawed from the start... once you have the core rules of a RPG game, you don't need anything else. Period. Full stop. With other hobby industries, say, the Model Railroading crowd, once you finish building a set after a year or two, you can just buy another sheet of 4x8x1 plywood and keep adding on...meaning you 'need' to keep buying stuff to continue your hobby. RPG's are not like that. The "equipment and stuff" you need is in you and your players heads; the equivalent would be being able to just "create" your new track, trees, grass and foliage, buildings, cars, people, cows, rocks, trains, etc without buying anything.
Anyway, I think they are actually sort of following my logic. I belive the core 'team' working on D&D is pretty small. This is good. They are keeping product production schedules waaaaay down. This is also good. This shows me that they may, just *may*, be thinking "It's the RPG industry. We aren't going to make millions on D&D like TSR did back in the 80's. Lets settle for 'sustained in-the-black' profit and we'll be fine. We can try and make the millions off of other D&D offshoots like video games, movies, and plastic cereal caddy's".
So, what I would do is... lower expectations of profit. Shoot for "good enough to keep us in the black, give everyone who works here a decent wage, three weeks paid vacation every year, and give our writers a LARGE amount of space to stretch their imagination wings". What I would *not* do? See 3.x/4e? Yeah, that. Don't do that.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
CapnZapp
Legend
The best would be if D&D were controlled by a company that accepted and didn't fight this. A company with realistically low expectations.
CapnZapp
Legend
I am not interested in all those changes, that were only driven by the edition switches.
For me, 3e FRCS is the definitive version. The value of an upgrade would be 5e mechanics for its zillion subclasses, spells and what not.
And that I simply don't see happening. With good reason, I might add.
A new Birthright setting would be much more exciting to me, for example.
Jester David
Hero
The 3e version was solid. A 5e one is likely taking a step back in that direction which could help. It could even try and present things in a roughly era agnostic fashion, with history and details off both the pre-Spellplague and post-Sundering eras.
Personally, I'd rather see WotC give the fan communities free licence to make free updates to the worlds. Like they did in 3e for the official fan sites. Or licence out worlds to 3rd Parties.
RangerWickett
Legend
Paizo basically kept 3rd edition going for (a total of) 15 years. So I'd say foster brand loyalty, produce engaging stories so players feel like they're enjoying the same content, and have a 'big bad' that you can stand up against as 'the little guy.'
WotC probably can't pull off that last one, unless they do some real judo and contrast their D&D brand with their M:tG brand, and try to make D&D gamers more fiercely loyal for the mere fact that D&D doesn't match that much money.
WotC probably can't pull off that last one, unless they do some real judo and contrast their D&D brand with their M:tG brand, and try to make D&D gamers more fiercely loyal for the mere fact that D&D doesn't match that much money.
What would I do?
1. I would probably start using extensive metrics, surveys, and play-testing to ensure the product was appealing to the largest possible segment of my customer base. Use these tools to refine and improve the game while ensuring I kept the elements people really liked.
2. I would keep it easy to play. Overly complex rules appeal to a certain segment of the customer base. Games like GURPS do a better job for that particular group. Simple rules that keep the entry level math and system mastery at a level where just about anyone can pick the game up and play it quickly would be a priority.
3. High quality adventure support. My opinion is the reason D&D has succeeded over other RPGs is not the quality of its rule system, but rather the robust adventure support whether it be modules that provide a quality adventure framework or the monster manuals and easy encounter building rules. I would very much focus on robust adventure support making it easy for a DM to run a fun game. If a DM can grab a module, read it in a day or two, and run an adventure that lasts a few months to a year, that makes the game easy to use. If a DM can pick up a monster book, find some challenging monsters to run for nearly any level, you make the game easy to run. Making the game as easy as possible to run for a DM would be a primary goal. DM's are the ones that keep the game going. The easier they can run it, the more players they can bring into the fold.
4. I'd foster a network of DMs that would act as word of mouth advertising and a ready group for play-testing material. I'd give them access to surveys that don't go out to the general player population. I'd entertain discussions of various issues amongst DMs like game balance and resolution mechanics. I'd possibly even take submissions for rules, monsters, and the like from my DM network fostering a feeling of involvement in the creative process of the game. I'd encourage DM workshops that help newer DMs learn to run the game. Any DM that can run the game well and can attract a group of players into the hobby would be a marketing success. The more DMs, the more players will be attracted to the game.
5. I'd keep aware of trends in entertainment. I'd create adventures that mirror those trends. I'd possibly create classes and races that take advantage of the trends. I'd release them initially as PDF material to get a feel for the number of people that would use the material. If sufficiently large, I would create hardcopy material for their use. Popular entertainment trends are important to take advantage of.
6. I'd make sure was I profitable. I wouldn't produce unprofitable product lines if possible. If I found a line was not meeting the profitability metrics I had in place, I would kill the product line or reduce it until it was. I would try to keep my margins as high as possible. I would keep budgets tight and try to remain as frugal as possible.
7. I would maintain a strong online presence including eventual access to the rules. I would invest in robust mapping tools including producing active maps for modules that allow DMs to run adventure material online. Rather than simple PDFs. I would produce a digitally supported adventure that interfaced with online gaming tools. I would let some 3rd parties build online adventure tools supporting them with adventures that tie into their tools. When one of the 3rd parties became dominant, I would purchase them and use their online platform to build a robust online network for playing D&D including a mapping tool, a combat resolution system that eased rolling, encounter creation system, and character creation system. Make it easy for a DM to create and run a game online. Then deploy digital adventures that can be purchased and used with the system.
8. Most importantly I would hire a larger company and spend a greater deal of money to create a D&D MMORPG that would dominate the market. I would model it on Everquest 1 or World of Warcraft incorporating the amazing amount of intellectual property D&D has amassed into a very detailed world including individual racial cities. I would probably use Forgotten Realms to do it. I would bring that world to life in a way as yet unseen. I would take a huge financial risk to do it because I am 100% confident that if I spend the money to do the game right, it will be a huge hit with the MMORPG community. It is obvious that D&D was the inspiration for fantasy MMORPGs. No game has a larger library of fantasy material that would translate into MMORGP than D&D. The fact they haven't leveraged this into the ultimate MMORPG is a criminal underutilization of D&D's intellectual property. Someone has been unwilling to spend the cash to make the ultimate D&D MMORPG. I would be the guy that finally said, "I will show you that the investment is worth it. Do a D&D MMORGP right, you will make WoW and Everquest look like what they are: imitations of the Grand Daddy of fantasy games."
1. I would probably start using extensive metrics, surveys, and play-testing to ensure the product was appealing to the largest possible segment of my customer base. Use these tools to refine and improve the game while ensuring I kept the elements people really liked.
2. I would keep it easy to play. Overly complex rules appeal to a certain segment of the customer base. Games like GURPS do a better job for that particular group. Simple rules that keep the entry level math and system mastery at a level where just about anyone can pick the game up and play it quickly would be a priority.
3. High quality adventure support. My opinion is the reason D&D has succeeded over other RPGs is not the quality of its rule system, but rather the robust adventure support whether it be modules that provide a quality adventure framework or the monster manuals and easy encounter building rules. I would very much focus on robust adventure support making it easy for a DM to run a fun game. If a DM can grab a module, read it in a day or two, and run an adventure that lasts a few months to a year, that makes the game easy to use. If a DM can pick up a monster book, find some challenging monsters to run for nearly any level, you make the game easy to run. Making the game as easy as possible to run for a DM would be a primary goal. DM's are the ones that keep the game going. The easier they can run it, the more players they can bring into the fold.
4. I'd foster a network of DMs that would act as word of mouth advertising and a ready group for play-testing material. I'd give them access to surveys that don't go out to the general player population. I'd entertain discussions of various issues amongst DMs like game balance and resolution mechanics. I'd possibly even take submissions for rules, monsters, and the like from my DM network fostering a feeling of involvement in the creative process of the game. I'd encourage DM workshops that help newer DMs learn to run the game. Any DM that can run the game well and can attract a group of players into the hobby would be a marketing success. The more DMs, the more players will be attracted to the game.
5. I'd keep aware of trends in entertainment. I'd create adventures that mirror those trends. I'd possibly create classes and races that take advantage of the trends. I'd release them initially as PDF material to get a feel for the number of people that would use the material. If sufficiently large, I would create hardcopy material for their use. Popular entertainment trends are important to take advantage of.
6. I'd make sure was I profitable. I wouldn't produce unprofitable product lines if possible. If I found a line was not meeting the profitability metrics I had in place, I would kill the product line or reduce it until it was. I would try to keep my margins as high as possible. I would keep budgets tight and try to remain as frugal as possible.
7. I would maintain a strong online presence including eventual access to the rules. I would invest in robust mapping tools including producing active maps for modules that allow DMs to run adventure material online. Rather than simple PDFs. I would produce a digitally supported adventure that interfaced with online gaming tools. I would let some 3rd parties build online adventure tools supporting them with adventures that tie into their tools. When one of the 3rd parties became dominant, I would purchase them and use their online platform to build a robust online network for playing D&D including a mapping tool, a combat resolution system that eased rolling, encounter creation system, and character creation system. Make it easy for a DM to create and run a game online. Then deploy digital adventures that can be purchased and used with the system.
8. Most importantly I would hire a larger company and spend a greater deal of money to create a D&D MMORPG that would dominate the market. I would model it on Everquest 1 or World of Warcraft incorporating the amazing amount of intellectual property D&D has amassed into a very detailed world including individual racial cities. I would probably use Forgotten Realms to do it. I would bring that world to life in a way as yet unseen. I would take a huge financial risk to do it because I am 100% confident that if I spend the money to do the game right, it will be a huge hit with the MMORPG community. It is obvious that D&D was the inspiration for fantasy MMORPGs. No game has a larger library of fantasy material that would translate into MMORGP than D&D. The fact they haven't leveraged this into the ultimate MMORPG is a criminal underutilization of D&D's intellectual property. Someone has been unwilling to spend the cash to make the ultimate D&D MMORPG. I would be the guy that finally said, "I will show you that the investment is worth it. Do a D&D MMORGP right, you will make WoW and Everquest look like what they are: imitations of the Grand Daddy of fantasy games."
Last edited:
Jessica
First Post
I don't think that would go over well. Many MMOs with massive budgets and popular licenses have failed to take over the market away from the current leader. Part of the problem, I think, is sort of a population inertia. A lot of people don't come keep going back to WoW because it is absolutely the best MMO ever made, but because they know more people playing WoW than any other MMO. You can make the best absolutely more awesome-est MMO that someone has ever seen, but if you can't get their friends over as well then you haven't really even won them over. Not to mention you also have to come up with a well designed MMO with extensive end game PvE content(and PvP content as well since that is pretty much a given in any MMO nowadays) that can appeal to both casual gamers and hardcore gamers and that doesn't try to outWoW WoW(so you would probably need something revolutionary mechanics wise to differentiate it from your standard tab target holy trinity MMO) and it would have to launch in a playable state against an MMO that is known for poaching good ideas from it's competitors. This new D&D MMO would have to also launch during a time when subscription based MMOs are an endangered species and have a solid plan for using a F2P model. As long as that 7 million subscriber giant is around, it's going to strangle a lot of MMOs right in the crib.
D&D has better content to work with than WoW. It's a matter of capitalizing the business until you took market share from WoW. It is also leveraging your intellectual content correctly. I have a pretty clear vision how I would do it. I believe if capitalized properly, I could unseat WoW or least take 50% of their subscriber base.
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