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D&D 5E CRs and what is going on?

Why boring? I can see it being frustrating, perhaps, but, why boring?

Boring because nothing cool is being handed out. Frustrating too. Whatever adjective one would want to apply to it. Either way, that campaign would suck. IMO. I love getting magic items. And interspersed between the once in a blue moon use utility items should be occasional cool weapons, armor, staves, etc.

I think the devs swung too far in the opposite direction from the Christmas Tree syndrome to the Desert of Worthless Items syndrome. :lol:
 

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Boring because nothing cool is being handed out. Frustrating too. Whatever adjective one would want to apply to it. Either way, that campaign would suck. IMO. I love getting magic items. And interspersed between the once in a blue moon use utility items should be occasional cool weapons, armor, staves, etc.

I think the devs swung too far in the opposite direction from the Christmas Tree syndrome to the Desert of Worthless Items syndrome. :lol:

I definitely hand out items players can use.
 

You could bring back AD&D-style Magic Resistance. Balors had a 70% chance to flatly ignore any spell cast on them, or even to collapse an existing spell by entering its AoE, which is much better than 5E Magic Resistance.

That scaled by level though. +/- 5% per level above or below 11th I believe. I don't like 5e DR and MR that much, but not sure its worth redoing.
 

That scaled by level though. +/- 5% per level above or below 11th I believe. I don't like 5e DR and MR that much, but not sure its worth redoing.

Yes, in AD&D1 it scaled by level. In 2nd edition it was just flat 70%, unless modified by spells like Lower Resistance.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. Don't love 5E MR, have been tempted to change it, but have not done so. I don't mind adding subsystems for where 5E doesn't have rules, but I'd rather retain what rules exist as much as possible so that I don't have to rewrite the MM/other supplements, and make up rules for how MR impacts CR/XP.

Although, now that I think about it, it wouldn't be that hard to change. If I declare that good old Mind Flayers have 90% Magic Resistance again, 5E would probably just consider that "immunity to magic" for CR purposes, which means it increases defensive HP by between 2x and 1.25x, depending on total CR. Hmmm. Maybe that is worth doing after all.
 

Boring because nothing cool is being handed out. Frustrating too. Whatever adjective one would want to apply to it. Either way, that campaign would suck. IMO. I love getting magic items. And interspersed between the once in a blue moon use utility items should be occasional cool weapons, armor, staves, etc.

I think the devs swung too far in the opposite direction from the Christmas Tree syndrome to the Desert of Worthless Items syndrome. :lol:

So, magic items are only interesting insofar as they make you a better combat character? Hey, whatever floats your boat, but, don't then turn around and complain that your PC's are too powerful in combat.

3E combats against substantial foes or powerful enemy groups lasted a lot longer than 3 rounds.

Very much not my experience. If the combat went a lot longer than 3 rounds, I was in the process of killing PC's. Considering a monster with a CR=Character level can potentially kill a PC in one round, how are you having such long combats without killing PC's?
 

So, magic items are only interesting insofar as they make you a better combat character? Hey, whatever floats your boat, but, don't then turn around and complain that your PC's are too powerful in combat.

First off, that is your spin on what I wrote.

The point that you might not have gotten was that there are a TON of boring magic items in the DMG. D&D has always been this way. Sure, when one really needs to go adventuring underwater, that Cap of Waterbreathing is great. But, 99% of the time, such an item collects dust on the player's character sheet. Most of the time, if the party really needs to go adventuring underwater, they will need spells or potions or some such that will allow the entire party to breathe underwater. If they have to go find enough extra waterbreathing, having the Cap tends to be superfulous.

The items that are the coolest tend to be the ones that can be used often. If not, what's the point of having them?

Look at what he had on his list:

1) Bag of Tricks. This one's not too bad, but still kind of situational. Players would use this.

2) Javelin of Lightning. What? A consumable little extra damage that is obsolete by level 5? And the player often hoards the item thinking he will have it when he needs it, but ends up waiting too many levels and makes it less worthwhile. Meh.

3) Gloves of Thievery. Seriously? A +5 item for two rarely used abilities. What happened to bounded accuracy? I could see where Sleight of Hand might be fun once in a blue moon, but again, huh?

4) Necklace of Adaptation. zzzzzzzzzz Great when a PC needs it. Most of the time, it collects dust.

5) Pearl of Power. This one is actually useful because the spell slot can be used for any known/prepped spell. But still, once per day use and it doesn't scale with level.

And the list goes on. Any of these items have some limited utility, but most players I know want items that they can use often. Not occasionally. In fact, we have about 24 magic items in our group of 6 7th level PCs and one of the players was bemoaning the fact that many of them were helpful so infrequently.

+1 armor is boring. But, it's used a lot. Ditto for a +1 sword or Cloak of Protection. These items are not interesting in what they can do, rather in the fact that they are always helpful. But a Staff of Power? A Figurine of Wonderous Power, a Helm of Teleportation, or Wings of Flying? These are cool items which can be used every adventuring day. It isn't just about items that can be used in combat. It's about items that players want to have and want to use.


Edit: And note, attunement has made the problem even worse. Now there are some items that most of the players really do not want to have, but the items require attunement and they are the only items the DM has handed out (due to the push for fewer items in 5E) so far and so they suck up attunement slots and later on at higher level, nobody will attune them because attunement is valuable. Such items are even less useful because PCs would have to wait some amount of game time in order to attune them back up.
 
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@Karinsdad - is that 24 permanent magic items? Holy crap. Our 8th level party of 6 PC's has about half of that and most of the items we currently have we've gained within the last session or two.

No wonder your players don't care about magic items. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Funny thing is, things that you write off, like that Necklace of Adaptation, has been incredibly useful in our game. Just last session it was used to explore underwater for example. And protected the user from the poisonous necrotic fog that was choking the life out of the area we were exploring.

So, to be honest, I think "utility" depends a lot on the game.
 

So, to be honest, I think "utility" depends a lot on the game.

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?467443-CRs-and-what-is-going-on/page17#ixzz3krATCOlw

If i where handing out utility items i would purposefully either hand them out knowing it would come in handy in the near future or if it randomly fell into the game i would create a use for it in the near future.

Players all ways feel cool and awesome when a difficult/impassable situation can be resolved when one guy smiles and say oh guys i have that X kicking around remember.
 

The items that are the coolest tend to be the ones that can be used often. If not, what's the point of having them?

Look at what he had on his list:

I only rolled that list of an example of how the expectations of magic items gained are often different than what we place in our campaigns, and therefore CR and combat in general kind be harder to balance by using a formula. I'm sure many DMs hand out more useful combat focused items to the characters, as has always been traditional in D&D but also shouldn't be surprised if combat becomes easier and the CR system doesn't work as well

Having said that I do like the odd random roll and in fact use this as an occasional mechanism of characters being able to purchase items. I might roll once a month in a large city to see if the party hears about something they might buy on the grapevine

A couple of comments on the items I rolled in that example..

2) Javelin of Lightning. What? A consumable little extra damage that is obsolete by level 5? And the player often hoards the item thinking he will have it when he needs it, but ends up waiting too many levels and makes it less worthwhile. Meh.

This is not a consumable anymore. Its pretty cool actually for the first time. Firstly its magic so good at low levels vs things immune or resistant to non magical weapons. Its power is useful once a day and can damage everything in its path, plus it does standard weapon and lighting damage to the creature it hits. Melee types should like this as their ranged attack option

3) Gloves of Thievery. Seriously? A +5 item for two rarely used abilities. What happened to bounded accuracy? I could see where Sleight of Hand might be fun once in a blue moon, but again, huh?

Are you saying picking locks is a rarely used ability? I don't know of a rogue that would love to have these gloves

I wouldn't run a campaign based on purely rolled items but if nothing else it sometimes turns up something interesting that you otherwise wouldn't have thought of placing yourself. I'm certainly thinking of using the javelin of lightning and a bag of tricks in my campaign now
 

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