D&D 5E Is the Noble class a good Warlord substitute?

[Mistwell]

Really, its a bit annoying to me; I won't spend the money on something that I have no way of judging the quality of, and I can't judge the quality of it without spending the money.

It has both a preview, and reviews, which are two very common methods of communicating quality prior to buying something like this. I suspect most people have spent more money based on less information than that, for text content.

 

[Mephista]

It has both a preview, and reviews, which are two very common methods of communicating quality prior to buying something like this. I suspect most people have spent more money based on less information than that, for text content.

The preview is a single page that tells us nothing. No proficencies, no levels, no abilities, and the HD changes with subclass. Everything is in the subclasses, which we don't get to see in the so-called preview. Its worthless.

Reviews have been less than forthcoming about any details necessary to make a decision. Saplatt's post on the first page has the largest amount of detail I've seen thus far, and that's saying something with how brief that post is. There are no reviews on how well it interacts with others, how commanding casters works, anything worthwhile. So, no. There is nothing to communicate quality so far.

What you suspect, or not, about my and other's spending is irrelevant. Plus I find that comment of "text content" to be rather suspect. Do you mean pay for story aka fluff? Because if you're insulting that, then I have to shake my head at you for being dismissive of story. We have shelves of fiction for a reason - people like story.

 

[Mistwell]

I think maybe a brief summary of the class is in order. I am going to try to be specific enough to give a good idea of things the class can do without being so specific that I give away the entire class.

Three subclasses: Path of the Brave, Heart, or Tactician.
The base class lets you do several things which buff your allies, as limited resources of one degree or another. They are, in general:
Turn your bonus action into ranged healing
Turn your action into an allies reaction on your turn
Turn your reaction into an allies re-roll on some things
Use a free action to give an ally an extra attack along with your own attack

Then there are some skill-based benefits for the class.

As for subclasses, two of the three give you more proficiency with weapons and armor (I actually think this was done inelegantly - the base class should have had some proficiency, and then had them taken away by the one).
One path makes you more resilient to both attacks and some effects, and a better combatant.
One path lets you grant additional actions and reactions to allies, at the expense of not attacking or being defended well yourself...and it gives you some other interesting things to do on your turn other than attack.
One path gives you Battlemaster superiority dice and maneuvers, and lets you transfer those dice and maneuvers to others, and also has some additional new maneuvers; in addition to some other tactical abilities and drawbacks.

I think that's a fair summary of the class.

 

[Mistwell]

The preview is a single page that tells us nothing. No proficencies, no levels, no abilities, and the HD changes with subclass. Everything is in the subclasses, which we don't get to see in the so-called preview. Its worthless.

It tells you more than most previews of content I have seen.

Reviews have been less than forthcoming about any details necessary to make a decision. Saplatt's post on the first page has the largest amount of detail I've seen thus far, and that's saying something with how brief that post is. There are no reviews on how well it interacts with others, how commanding casters works, anything worthwhile. So, no. There is nothing to communicate quality so far.

Telling you specifics on how it interacts with some potential combinations is not really what I'd call a fair criteria for what is "worthwhile" in terms of quality. If it's not enough for you, fair enough. But, you're painting with a very broad brush there.

What you suspect, or not, about my and other's spending is irrelevant. Plus I find that comment of "text content" to be rather suspect. Do you mean pay for story aka fluff? Because if you're insulting that, then I have to shake my head at you for being dismissive of story. We have shelves of fiction for a reason - people like story.

I am not insulting anything (typo?) and I did not mean anything of the sort from that content. Wow, you read an awful lot into that sentence that was not there. I mean by text content simply books or PDFs, newspapers or articles, anything which one might pay to be able to read.

 

[Mephista]

It tells you more than most previews of content I have seen.

If "Hey, play a ruler!" blurb, d6 HD, and a CHA/WIS focus for skills is a good preview to you, then I must say that I've been spoiled by the official 5e class previews, which included a page or two of background and story as well as the level progression. Or maybe the book previews on amazon, which has 10% to 20% of the actual book to read through. Or downloadable demos that you can play.

Seriously, social skills + medicine and CHA/WIS saves is the extent of information there. That's pathetic for a preview. If that's your standard for a good review? I'm sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I've seen arguably worse, but as exceptions, not the norm. I say arguably, because this preview isn't just bare, its potentially misleading - the lack of any proficencies is rather a significant shock.

Telling you specifics on how it interacts with some potential combinations is not really what I'd call a fair criteria for what is "worthwhile" in terms of quality. If it's not enough for you, fair enough. But, you're painting with a very broad brush there.

Broad brush? I was throwing out random examples of anything that could have been mentioned, not an exhaustive list. There could have been anything about the functionality of the class in a preview. Those were just two off the top of my head as concerns.

But I'm done here. I'm tired of being told that the lack of information is actually sufficent, then being dismissed for wanting more. Good bye.

 

[MoonSong]

@Mephista sorry about the preview not being as useful as it should be. Wordcount was at a premium and I don't exactly decide what goes where or the illustrations. At the same time I can't give a lot of details about the text of the article without breaking the 1 year without reprinting clause. ( [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION], this is the same reason I keep mentioning the article on discussions about the warlord, I would thread too close to the actual text, which I'm bound not to reproduce, so it is more "I want to say something but it is in the article and I can't, go for the article to see it"). I didn't really try to put the class behind a paywall, it wasn't my intention, I began working on this about two years ago, and I wanted to make it more visible and accessible, so players had a better chance to play it.

My idea behind this poll was to see if I still needed to work more in the class -with maybe a complex melee subclass, or see if there is demand for a prescient and resourceful warlord-, and to help make people aware of the class, I guess the name was kind of misleading and not very obvious on it wanting to be useful for warlord players. @Mistwell, thanks for your summary, I appreciate your opinion.

 

[Mistwell]

Broad brush? I was throwing out random examples of anything that could have been mentioned, not an exhaustive list. There could have been anything about the functionality of the class in a preview. Those were just two off the top of my head as concerns.

You seem to have lost some train of thought here. This paragraph you were responding to was about REVIEWS, not previews. I say again, it's fine that you want even more from a review (and I tried to give you more in the other post), but I think you're painting with a very broad brush in your critique of existing reviews because they don't provide an example like the one you gave which is very highly specific. I don't think it was a fair critique of reviews.

But I'm done here. I'm tired of being told that the lack of information is actually sufficent, then being dismissed for wanting more. Good bye.

Nobody dismissed you - that's what I responded to every point you made, and made it clear I think it's fine if it's not enough for you, and tried to help you out by giving you even more details. The only guy I see being dismissive here is you - when you weren't reading a whole lot of strawmen into the simple phrase "text content". From my perspective, people are bending over backwards to address the issues you raised, and you keep slapping them away. I am still willing to address any questions you have about the Noble class to get you to the point where you feel you have enough information to decide if you want to spend a single dollar to obtain the article.

 

[Morrus]

Just a note - you can't buy the article. You can subscribe to *future* articles (and you'll incidentally get all 30+ previous ones for free, at least that's what we've done for subscribers thus far) but there's no way to be charged for this or any previous article.

 

[Sunseeker]

And? So is the PHB, but you're expected to buy that before giving feedback on the battlemaster. Do you complain when a preview of a for-pay PDF is on the front page of the site?

Wrong. I can read the entire PHB before buying it, the entire MM, I just can't read them before they're released. How should I be expected to know that the class gains additional proficiency later on when none of that is indicated on the only page I can see?

It doesn't matter if it's a dollar or a hundred. He's asking if it's a good alternative while literally telling us nothing about it. It's Schrodinger's Class!

@Mephista sorry about the preview not being as useful as it should be. Wordcount was at a premium and I don't exactly decide what goes where or the illustrations. At the same time I can't give a lot of details about the text of the article without breaking the 1 year without reprinting clause. ( [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION], this is the same reason I keep mentioning the article on discussions about the warlord, I would thread too close to the actual text, which I'm bound not to reproduce, so it is more "I want to say something but it is in the article and I can't, go for the article to see it"). I didn't really try to put the class behind a paywall, it wasn't my intention, I began working on this about two years ago, and I wanted to make it more visible and accessible, so players had a better chance to play it.


My idea behind this poll was to see if I still needed to work more in the class -with maybe a complex melee subclass, or see if there is demand for a prescient and resourceful warlord-, and to help make people aware of the class, I guess the name was kind of misleading and not very obvious on it wanting to be useful for warlord players. @Mistwell, thanks for your summary, I appreciate your opinion.

I'm sorry for your printing restrictions, they sound ridiculous. I simply can't make a good decision (be it for a dollar or any other number) on the amount of information you're allowed to give out. If these are EN World's restrictions, then that only further disincentivises my subscribing (that's not your fault of course) Especially given that the apparent meat of your class is all in the subclass.

 

[Jester David]

Wrong. I can read the entire PHB before buying it, the entire MM, I just can't read them before they're released. How should I be expected to know that the class gains additional proficiency later on when none of that is indicated on the only page I can see?

It doesn't matter if it's a dollar or a hundred. He's asking if it's a good alternative while literally telling us nothing about it. It's Schrodinger's Class!

If you can read the entire PHB before buying, your FLGS is awesome and the thanks should be directed at them. That's special and far from being the baseline. Expecting to have full access to all content is very much not the norm unless you are a well known reviewer who warrants free copies.

I'm sorry for your printing restrictions, they sound ridiculous. I simply can't make a good decision (be it for a dollar or any other number) on the amount of information you're allowed to give out. If these are EN World's restrictions, then that only further disincentivises my subscribing (that's not your fault of course) Especially given that the apparent meat of your class is all in the subclass.

The En5ider policy is actually quite liberal. Most times you outright sell your work and lose all rights to it. Reposting the content is effectively piracy as the content is no longer yours.
Any time you get the writing back is impressive and non-standard.


At the end of the day, you're choosing not to purchase access to the article (and 36 others) and support both a small publisher and new freelancer. Okay, that's fine. That's you're choice. But you also waive the right to seriously contribute to this conversation, as much as if we were discussing a movie you have not seen or a book you have not read.
You have nothing meaningful or relevant to say. You are wasting all of our time. Good day sir.