D&D 5E Do you think we will get an Oriental Adventures setting for 5th edition?

[S'mon]

I think you're missing the point of why "oriental" is offensive. Sure, it's just another word for "east", but the implication is that the Orient is east of the "real world", the "important world" where all of the normal cultures and monsters are. Asians, naturally, view Asia as the real world and many of them do not appreciate their cultures being treated as part of a theme park diversion from "normal" adventuring.

You presumably then take equal offence at "Asian", which also means "Eastern!" Not to mention "Occidental" & "Western". *sigh*

 

[DammitVictor]

You presumably then take equal offence at "Asian", which also means "Eastern!" Not to mention "Occidental" & "Western". *sigh*

"Asia" is a landmass; "Asian" refers to the inhabitants of that landmass. It's not offensive, but it's inaccurate, in the same way that describing Forgotten Realms as "European Adventures" would be. And I'm certainly not offended by "Oriental Adventures", since I own copies of both editions and I enjoy them thoroughly despite the title.

edit: I like Asian fantasy. I like Chinese and Japanese folklore, and I wish Indian folklore got better coverage in gaming. I just want to see gaming companies do a better job of producing this material than they have in the past; I think Wizards of the Coast has largely been on the right track, first by licensing Rokugan as the default setting for 3e Oriental Adventures and later by avoiding Orientalism in general when incorporating Asian-inspired material in 4e and 5e. I'd like to see them continue this trend.

 

[S'mon]

"Asia" is a landmass; "Asian" refers to the inhabitants of that landmass. It's not offensive, but it's inaccurate, in the same way that describing Forgotten Realms as "European Adventures" would be. .

Asia and the Orient mean exactly the same thing, as do Asian and Oriental.
If I were a Japanese RPG manufacturer I might well publish European Adventures if I thought it would sell.

 

[Shasarak]

I think you're missing the point of why "oriental" is offensive. Sure, it's just another word for "east", but the implication is that the Orient is east of the "real world", the "important world" where all of the normal cultures and monsters are. Asians, naturally, view Asia as the real world and many of them do not appreciate their cultures being treated as part of a theme park diversion from "normal" adventuring.

I always laugh at the Northerners running around upside down not even knowing it.

 

[michaeljpatrick]

I think you're missing the point of why "oriental" is offensive.

I think you're misinterpreting which side of the discussion I happen to be on. I was listing common arguments that are used to justify usage of the word "oriental", not actually supporting them. That's why they are in quotes.

The fact that "Asian" and "Orient" are synonyms is irrelevant. "Negro" and "Black" are synonyms too, but there are subtler shades of meaning that the words have gathered over the years that go beyond their original definitions.

I really don't get why people want to argue this. How important is it to you that the word "Oriental" be in the title? Why is that important? Because it was in the title of an RPG supplement that you played as a kid? Who cares? Not all media is an attempt to recreate your youth.

Or maybe it's because you just are a stickler for precise dictionary definitions of words. I doubt that, though. Plenty of words get used publicly in ways other than initially intended and I don't see massive forum posts about those. It seems like people are more likely to be pedantic about precise meanings of words when those words are offensive to others. "Oh no sir. I was merely calling you a bundle of sticks. Don't be such a female dog about it."*

Anyway. I already mentioned that I don't want to argue about it anymore. It's really pointless. Some Asian people don't like the word "Oriental" because it is exotifying to them. People don't like being exotified. Therefore it would be a bad business practice to make that the title of a supplement.

The earlier comparison to "Out of the Abyss" is silly. WotC doesn't have to worry about offending demons because demons aren't real. They may offend fringe groups like some extreme religious people, but that is unavoidable. The fringe groups are going to be offended at something no matter what. But the difference is that "Out of the Abyss" doesn't use terms that categorize actual people based on how or where they were born. That should be obvious.

Most of all, it really doesn't matter. I highly doubt that WotC is going to put out a supplement with the word "Oriental" on the cover. End of story. Any whining that the case should be otherwise is pointless. "Oriental Adventures" isn't even a great title. Something more evocative will probably be used. I mean "Out of the Abyss" could have been called "Underdark Adventures with Demons Too", but they went with a better title.





*Note that the preceding words were in quotes. That is because they are the words of a hypothetical person who's argument I would disagree with and not my actual thoughts on the subject.

 

[miburo99]

You presumably then take equal offence at "Asian", which also means "Eastern!" Not to mention "Occidental" & "Western". *sigh*

I'm imagining some tabletop RPG in Japan or China naming one of their sourcebooks "Occidental Adventures." The image in my head is rather entertaining =P

 

[Azzy]

The problem with Kara-Tur is that, as part of the Realms, it doesn't have its own Elminsters and its own gods to contend with; it's still an appendix to Eurocentric Faerûn.

That's more due to the fact that it hasn't really been developed as much as Faerun. There isn't a long list of novels that take place there (only two, as far as I know of—the first two in the Empires trilogy). There are certainly big-wig NPCs listed in the old Kara-Tur boxed set, though.

As far as religions go, they have The Way (aka Daoism), the Path of Enlightenment (aka Buddhism), the Philosophy of the Nine Travelers (aka Confucianism), the Eight Million Gods (aka Shinto), ancestor worship, and animism. Additionally, much like Mulhorand(?) uses the real-world Babylonian pantheon, Kara-tur seems to have been saddled with real-world Chinese, Japanese and Indian pantheons as presented in Legends & Lore. However, that could (and really should) be changed to be something more interesting and less lazy.

 

[Parmandur]

That's more due to the fact that it hasn't really been developed as much as Faerun. There isn't a long list of novels that take place there (only two, as far as I know of—the first two in the Empires trilogy). There are certainly big-wig NPCs listed in the old Kara-Tur boxed set, though.



As far as religions go, they have The Way (aka Daoism), the Path of Enlightenment (aka Buddhism), the Philosophy of the Nine Travelers (aka Confucianism), the Eight Million Gods (aka Shinto), ancestor worship, and animism. Additionally, much like Mulhorand(?) uses the real-world Babylonian pantheon, Kara-tur seems to have been saddled with real-world Chinese, Japanese and Indian pantheons as presented in Legends & Lore. However, that could (and really should) be changed to be something more interesting and less lazy.

Mulholland is Egypt, Unther is Summerian/Babylonian, I believe.

Notably, areas not designed by Greenwood tend to be exact real world paralells...

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't think there is a problem with the incorrect depiction of eastern religions. Yes, the religion of Rokugan for example is vaguely inspired by shinto, but it is a not that, and Shintao is not taoism. Where is the problem with that? Where is it "offensive"? Western settings completely ignore western monotheisms, and depict totally made-up religions which are vaguely based on greek-roman-norse polytheisms, but as depictions they are totally inaccurate, starting from the fact that they overly stress the idea that each person worships mostly one deity, while people of the past rather worshipped entire pantheons. I don't think many people are offended by this, nobody thinks that the game is subtly telling "all westerners worship wacky deities of agriculture, death, crafts, disease, commerce, war..."

 

[Azzy]

Mulholland is Egypt, Unther is Summerian/Babylonian, I believe.

Thank you, I knew I was getting that mixed up—it's been a long time since I played in the Realms.

Notably, areas not designed by Greenwood tend to be exact real world paralells...

It's the ol' "Ed's not here, so let's just phone it in" that plagued so much of the expanded Realms.