D&D 5E What classes do you want added to 5e?

[TwoSix]

Now, offering mechanical benefit for taking option #1 is manipulative. I don't think that's cool.

Whereas I see that as simply good design. Ideally, the system shouldn't just allow roleplaying, it should be fostering it and promoting it.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Whereas I see that as simply good design. Ideally, the system shouldn't just allow roleplaying, it should be fostering it and promoting it.

Although I guess it technically is a system promoting roleplaying. That's not an accurate assessment of what is being suggested at all in this example. If anything it's a system pigeonholing and straitjacketing roeplaying. It's telling the players how to roleplay.

"All your characters should love this character."

How is that good design?

 

[TwoSix]

Although I guess it technically is a system promoting roleplaying. That's not an accurate assessment of what is being suggested at all in this example. If anything it's a system pigeonholing and straitjacketing roeplaying. It's telling the players how to roleplay.

"All your characters should love this character."

How is that good design?

To be fair, it's a terrible example that has nothing to do with any game I've heard of and is, at best, a tremendous distortion of how warlord healing is actually played at the table.

Having a character hook that say "My character is in love with this other PC" and gaining a bonus to take activities that prove that love is a good system feature. A feature that says "You must fall in love with me"....I don't even know how that works, or what benefit that would provide to the game.

I know you think that the "must love me" exaggeration is somehow analogous to warlord healing, but it isn't.

 

[Guest 6801328]

To be fair, it's a terrible example that has nothing to do with any game I've heard of and is, at best, a tremendous distortion of how warlord healing is actually played at the table.

Having a character hook that say "My character is in love with this other PC" and gaining a bonus to take activities that prove that love is a good system feature. A feature that says "You must fall in love with me"....I don't even know how that works, or what benefit that would provide to the game.

I know you think that the "must love me" exaggeration is somehow analogous to warlord healing, but it isn't.

Huh. I see it is an exact parallel. If the description of your character's ability is that my character finds you inspiring, then either that's true whether or not I agreed to it, or I have to kick up a fuss and say "no, it's not true" (and possibly risk dying as a result of standing up for my roleplaying rights).

I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that I would find "you must fall in love with my character" and "you must look up to my character as a leader" equally obnoxious. And, to be clear, that is exactly what I hear when I read the descriptions of Warlord healing.* If forced to choose between having one or the other in the party with me I would probably have to go with the former just to see how it turns out in terms of amusement.

But most likely I'd go home and look for an online PbP game of The One Ring instead.

*The fluff for a Warlord's tactical abilities are almost as bad: "Although you have trained for years to master hand-to-hand combat, that guy with the red, white, and blue shield can tell you how to fight better from 30' away. And he's only half your level."

 

[TwoSix]

Huh. I see it is an exact parallel. If the description of your character's ability is that my character finds you inspiring, then either that's true whether or not I agreed to it, or I have to kick up a fuss and say "no, it's not true" (and possibly risk dying as a result of standing up for my roleplaying rights).

Or, you simply accept the healing and flavor it as something else. You know, like I've said.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

To be fair, it's a terrible example that has nothing to do with any game I've heard of and is, at best, a tremendous distortion of how warlord healing is actually played at the table.

Nope.

"All your characters should respect and admire this character*."

(*in order to receive my warlord class benefits)

Identical.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Whereas I see that as simply good design. Ideally, the system shouldn't just allow roleplaying, it should be fostering it and promoting it.

This sort of reminds me of an epic thread (soon to be gone forever, thankfully) over at Wotc about "metagaming". Some people had a definition of roleplaying that seemed to be "act out an assigned role" whereas others defined it as "being free to express my character according to ideas that I have".

I think we may be having that same disconnect in this thread.

 

[TwoSix]

Nope.

"All your characters should respect and admire this character*."

(*in order to receive my warlord class benefits)

Identical.

Nope.

You don't have to admire the character to receive the benefits. Like I've said.

Different.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Or, you simply accept the healing and flavor it as something else. You know, like I've said.

Ok. Any good suggestions for that fluff that:
1) Are non-magical (your requirement)
2) Don't assume anything about the thoughts/emotions of the recipient? (my requirement)

If we can find that, can we just all agree to flavor Captain America that way?

 

[TwoSix]

This sort of reminds me of an epic thread (soon to be gone forever, thankfully) over at Wotc about "metagaming". Some people had a definition of roleplaying that seemed to be "act out an assigned role" whereas others defined it as "being free to express my character according to ideas that I have".

I think we may be having that same disconnect in this thread.

I guarantee you we've had more in-depth discussions of what constitutes "metagaming" here. Multiple thousands of posts by some really smart posters. Ah, we had some times, back then!