Day of Discovery (Problem child)

[delericho]

I'm done. If his next version isn't legal I'm not going to spend an hour detailing his mistakes for him, I just won't let it into the game when I DM.

But you'll keep listing them for us, I hope?

 

[Greenfield]

No.

After the fourth or fifth time it stops being entertaining watching someone fail to count. Or spell. Or write complete sentences.

Someone here nailed it on the head: He plays like it's WOW, a contest to see who can make the grossest character. At some level he's playing against the other players.

One of our group who I've occasionally referred to as The Tinker (Retired master machinist, tool and die maker) is the most consistently friendly and cheerful person I know. The email exchanges over the character have gotten him to the point he's "screaming" (all caps) at Problem Child to stop cheating.

I've never seen him that kind of angry at anyone, and I've known him for 20 years.

I don't think Problem Child will be our problem much longer. There's a vote in progress.

 

[Satyrn]

I don't think Problem Child will be our problem much longer. There's a vote in progress.

I was just about to suggest something like that, although a little different. It was:

I think you kinda just have to accept that he plays this way.

Let him get away with the little cheating (it didn't help anyway apparently, since he's described as a bad powergamer) otherwise you just get stuck with the unfun role of playing police.

Or, again to avoid the unfun role of playing police, dump him.

 

[Greenfield]

I was uncomfortable holding a vote by email, with Problem Child not on the mailing list. Felt like a back stab.

At the same time though, several people at our table play in other games with him, or at clubs he goes to. I can understand them not wanting to poison their other game tables with the ichor from this ugly, ugly situation. There's a strong argument for a secret ballot.

I started the email vote with one simple rule: If someone doesn't approve of the email vote then they shouldn't vote. If I didn't hear from everyone, then the email vote wouldn't count. I'd keep the "Who voted which way" to myself, and I'd play the "bad guy" and deliver the bad news, if it came to that.

I had heard from six of the seven players, with the hold out one who is always hard to reach.

Then, just now, I heard from Problem Child himself. He was angry at being called a cheater, and was leaving the game.

I told him about the vote, that several people had voted for him to stay if he changed his ways, but that he wasn't winning over all. I thanked him for making the whole thing easier.

It's over.

 

[Dandu]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[delericho]

No.

After the fourth or fifth time it stops being entertaining watching someone fail to count. Or spell. Or write complete sentences.

Fair enough, and I do understand your frustrations. I wasn't really serious - hence the smiley.

Then, just now, I heard from Problem Child himself. He was angry at being called a cheater, and was leaving the game.

Painful as it is, that's the best outcome all round. Hopefully your game will improve as a result.

 

[Greenfield]

He wasn't a good fit for our game group.

I had a conversation with him last week, after the game. I pointed out that his character's play style, for all his characters, was "Me first, others if I get around to it."

His Cleric would have one or two Cure spells for people, after a battle. Usually from an item. The bulk of his spells were reserved for personal buffs or protections.

He agreed that it probably looked that way, but to him he was "playing it right". He said, "Well, that's just me.".

It just wasn't us.

 

[Greenfield]

Just heard from Problem Child again. He plans to "finish out the month and see where it goes".

It's not over <groan>

 

[Grogg of the North]

Well, if you need to still deal with the will, I recommend using this.

 

[N'raac]

He argued that he was legal because he had created the character with two 15s that he turned into 16s, rather than a 16 and a 14, which he then bought up to a pair of 16s. The cost is the same.

Is it possible his character SW is set on "Pathfinder"? Pathfinder made the even numbers the point breaks. But then, it also changed the pricing overall.

He cited some incomprehensible garble of pseudo-math to explain why his character had 103 skill points to spend.

Someone check my math please:

The character is Human, so that's a +1. Int is 14, so that's a +2.

1st level was Rogue, which is 8. Add Human and Int to total 11, times 4 is 44.
2nd level is Rogue, for another 11, bringing the total to 55.
3rd through 9th levels were Stalward Sorcerer, which are 2 each, plus Human and Int for a total of 5. Seven levels of that are 35. Add to 55 and I get 90. He gets 103. He spent 105, when you include languages.

Or 5 levels of Rogue effectively; L1 is 4 levels of skill points) = 5x8 = 40. 7 levels of SS x 2 = 14. So that's 54

9 levels + 3 more for 1st level (wasn't he supposed to be 8th level?) x 2 for INT + 1 for Human = 12 x 3 = 36 more.

54 + 36 = 90

Sounds like his math drags behind his writing.

He argued that the Bow and the ray spells use the same to-hit, so the Specialization in Rays should apply to the bow.

You mean like all melee attacks use the same to-hit so Focus in one gives you plus 1 to all to hit rolls in melee? Are you sure he's operating at a 6th grade level?

Oh, and the sheet he sent said it was a clone of some other character of his, so he's made these same mistakes before.

I'd ban that character sheet generator as it is clearly buggy and require he use one that other players successfully bring in legal characters with.

And I think I understand why he's so insistent on making the new character the old one's brother, despite having a different family name and different race: He knows that the party will try to bring his old character back. He's planning to have his old character give all her wealth to her "brother", then retire the character. He is bound and determined to bypass that house rule and pass the wealth on to the new character.

If he does, this DM will declare a thaumo-nuclear implosion that sucks both characters into the void, gone forever. Start character #3. The first two sucked anyway.

Actually, I'd resolve this some what simpler. You can only have one PC at any given time (call a vote - no one will oppose that, I suspect). So, while PC 1 is your character, she gives all her wealth to PC 2 (presently an NPC). In his rapture over the return of his sister from the clutches of the grave, the NPC falls to his knees, praising whatever Deity links to Sister's return and offering all of his wealth (now including all of her wealth) as a sacrifice to the Deity's greatness. All of the items vanish in a fashion most suitable to the Deity in question. Why, it's a MIRACLE!

Now he can convert from PC 1 and NPC 2 to PC 2 and NPC 1. But neither one has any wealth, equipment, etc. any more. Or maybe the merciful Deity accepts only a portion of this offering (about the amount needed to put him back to appropriate wealth comparable with the rest of the PC's/his level/whatever) and an admonition to "Go forth and be a shining example of DEITY'S power and grace". Since he's found religion, he'd better stick to it - deities are fussy about that sort of thing.

It's getting harder by the minute, Ranes. He's claiming that HeroForge gave him the wrong total, and challenges the others at the table to fire it up and put his stats in.

I did, it said that they cost 33 points.

Weren't they supposed to cost 34? Seems like the SW is flawed.

He's still complaining that his last character can't leave a "Last Will and Testimony" (his phrasing, not mine). I pointed out that his character didn't leave any such Will, at least not while she was alive.

If someone wants to leave a Will, we'd probably honor it, even if they left gear to a "brother". As long as the new PC, be they brother or not, came in at an appropriate wealth level we wouldn't care. How they got the wealth is just back story.

That - leaving your possessions to a new PC which explains where his wealth came from is fine. Leaving them to the new PC does not mean the PC gets his own WBL plus the inheritance.

When his Cleric converted from Taiia to the Egyptian pantheon, the player said his "toon" had no real memories of anything before that moment. She had a general id3ea that we were friends, but that was it. Once she died, however, she suddenly remembered a brother.

So how did she prepare a will before her death leaving her wealth to a brother she forgot about until after her death?

One of our group who I've occasionally referred to as The Tinker (Retired master machinist, tool and die maker) is the most consistently friendly and cheerful person I know. The email exchanges over the character have gotten him to the point he's "screaming" (all caps) at Problem Child to stop cheating.

There's a vote in progress.

YAY!

I was uncomfortable holding a vote by email, with Problem Child not on the mailing list. Felt like a back stab.

At the same time though, several people at our table play in other games with him, or at clubs he goes to. I can understand them not wanting to poison their other game tables with the ichor from this ugly, ugly situation. There's a strong argument for a secret ballot.

Nothing prevents PC being told of the vote, which is being held by secret ballot. A secret ballot seems reasonable to me * [boring war story about secret ballots to follow]

I started the email vote with one simple rule: If someone doesn't approve of the email vote then they shouldn't vote. If I didn't hear from everyone, then the email vote wouldn't count. I'd keep the "Who voted which way" to myself, and I'd play the "bad guy" and deliver the bad news, if it came to that.

Absent group consensus on whether a secret ballot is appropriate, this seems a fair approach - one "No" to secret ballots means no secret ballot until we set the process for votes.

Given the later developments, I'd say keep waiting for that final vote.

I told him about the vote, that several people had voted for him to stay if he changed his ways, but that he wasn't winning over all. I thanked him for making the whole thing easier.

Emphasis added. What happens if he does not? Presumably another vote.

Just heard from Problem Child again. He plans to "finish out the month and see where it goes".

It's not over <groan>

Condolences. Depending on where your 6 of 7 is, the 7th vote may resolve the issue in any case.

* Boring secret ballot war story only related by the greatest of tangents.

Way back in the 1e/2e days, we used to elect a party leader. "Leader" = person no one listens to, but who is to blame if anything goes wrong.

What possessed them to elect my CHAOTIC good character as leader I will never know. But they did.

Being a fair and reasonable person, my character held secret ballots for major decisions. [Each player would note their vote on a slip of paper, which they handed to the DM]

Being the leader, my character counted the votes and announced the results. [I didn't have to see the papers as a player and my character just tossed them in a hat before counting them.]

Being it was a secret ballot, my character would then toss the papers in the fire, torch, lantern, whatever.

Being CHAOTIC in all caps, my note generally said "I am the leader. I count the votes. The vote was 4 in favour, 2 opposed, 1 abstention."

The first time I did that, the DM's face should have blown the whole deal if anyone else was watching, but he regained his composure quickly. The first few, I just voted because my character did not much care about the results. But if he did...well, you all voted on a leader!