D&D 5E Templates in the MM

[Remathilis]

But there's a big difference if I want to make a cloud giant zombie or purple worm skeleton, just to give two examples. I, for one, would really like to have a template for skeletons and zombies - the 5e templates so far have been short and sweet, and with a proper template it would be a breeze to create a skeleton or zombie out of any creature I wanted. Or, at the very least, give us more examples to use, not just for themselves, but as a base we can extrapolate other similar creature skeletons/zombies from...

Do worms even have skeletons?

That said, take a giant/skeleton, add +2 dex, -4 Int/Cha, give him Vunerability to bludgeon, immune to poison/poisoned, exhaustion, darkvision, and can't speak as traits. Then, remove attacks that no longer makes sense (such as acid spittle or innate spellcasting) and recalculate via the DMG.

Dead simple.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Are the "racial traits" for zombies and skeletons in the DMG (pg 282) not good enough to use as templates?

Those are only for the NPCs from Appendix B of the MM (the sub chapter is "NPC Stat Blocks" and immediately says it's about the NPCs from Appendix B); as per page 283 of the DMG, those only apppy for monsters/races with a base CR of 1 or less.

But in any case, try using the stats given in the chart to match the examples given in the MM. The Minotaur Skeleton fails right off the bat; the first thing listed in the racial traits chart is +2 to Dex, and the Minotaur Skeleton has the exact same Dex as the regular, live version. Same with Int; it's supposed to be -4, but they are exactly the same. Only Cha follows the chart. The Skeletal Warhorse is similarly wrong, as is the Ogre Zombie. And as for the poor Zombie Beholder - it has a lower Con when it should have a higher, and its Int, Wis, and Cha are lowered way beyond what the chart on p. 282 indicates. WotC is obviously using a different method in the MM to design their skeletons and zombies than that chart in the DMG, so we need the template they are using to create skeletons and zombies of similar power to the examples in the MM...

 

[pukunui]

Those are only for the NPCs from Appendix B of the MM (the sub chapter is "NPC Stat Blocks" and immediately says it's about the NPCs from Appendix B); as per page 283 of the DMG, those only apppy for monsters/races with a base CR of 1 or less.

I think you're misreading that. It says that it includes traits for "various creatures from the Monster Manual with a challenge rating lower than 1." That doesn't mean you can only apply those traits to monsters of CR 1 or less, just that the table doesn't include traits for any creatures with a CR higher than 1. And yes, while it talks about using the traits to modify the NPC stats in the back of the MM, you can absolutely still use the zombie and skeleton traits to modify any other monster. No need to stick to the letter of the law, as it were.

But in any case, try using the stats given in the chart to match the examples given in the MM. The Minotaur Skeleton fails right off the bat; the first thing listed in the racial traits chart is +2 to Dex, and the Minotaur Skeleton has the exact same Dex as the regular, live version. Same with Int; it's supposed to be -4, but they are exactly the same. Only Cha follows the chart...

The guidelines in the DMG are exactly that. Guidelines. It's as much art as science. There's no "supposed to" or "should be" about it. Trying to deconstruct the monsters in the MM using the guidelines in the DMG is an exercise in futility. Just go with what feels right.

 

[Demetrios1453]

The guidelines in the DMG are exactly that. Trying to deconstruct the monsters in the MM using them is an exercise in futility.

Then let them give us proper templates so it ceases to be so.

 

[pukunui]

Then let them give us proper templates so it ceases to be so.

You're still missing the point. You don't *need* "proper" templates to turn something into a skeleton or a zombie.

If it's a skeleton, give it the stats you think it should have, give it vulnerability to bludgeoning damage and immunity to poison/being poisoned, give it darkvision if it doesn't already have it, and give it the Undead Nature line (doesn't need to eat, breathe, or sleep). Done!

If it's a zombie, give it the stats you think it should have, give it Undead Fortitude, give it immunity to poison/being poisoned, give it darkvision if it doesn't already have it, maybe reduce its speed by 5-10 ft, and give it the Undead Nature line. Done! Again!

What more do you want/need?