D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[TheCosmicKid]

Possibly not in that specific product, but, certainly over the range of products it would be no problem.

Then you're relying on people to examine the whole range of products and evaluate the one with the lesbian villain in context.

Which they should, of course.

But many don't.

 

[Mouseferatu]

If it actually matters to the adventure then hey, the more detailed info about the relationship the better. Its the window dressing stuff that doesn't need to take up space.

I couldn't disagree more.

No, I don't want paragraph after paragraph of info on minor NPCs, of course. But the occasional personal detail--the blacksmith is married, the tanner's cousin is the innkeep, the magistrate is often hungover in the mornings and thus rude, the city guardsman wanted to be an adventurer but couldn't bring himself to leave home--add an enormous amount of personality. I have no interest in a setting or an adventure that doesn't try to infuse some life into its NPCs beyond the needs of the specific plot.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Possibly not in that specific product, but, certainly over the range of products it would be no problem. And besides, WOTC doesn't make one shot adventures. How many married or in relationship NPC's are there in Out of the Abyss? I have no idea, I don't have the module. And the Adventurers League version does cover several modules. Heck, let's take a peek at Harried in Hillsfar. Five one shot modules.

Very first adventure you have a married couple that adopts children. Now, they also have children of their own (born after the adoptions), so, it does make sense that this is a hetero couple. But, since the couple don't actually NEED sextuplet children for this adventure to work, this could easily be a same sex couple. The monstrous births that come later (sextuplet demonic goats) and the confirmation from another NPC about the bizarre births in the area, means that the couple don't actually need to have children for this adventure to work.

Adventure two features a half elf girl whose parents are not present. Funnily enough, when you do meet the parents, they are both half-elves. Avoids the problem nicely. But, again, you could make the parents same sex and the girl adopted without any problem whatsoever. Granted, the parents in the adventure are ... well, I don't want to spoil it, but, it is possible that they could have adopted the girl.

The third adventure features two couples, the first of which features a pregnant wife who is traveling to a holy site for blessing for the child. Ok, fair enough, that might be a bit tricky to change there. But the second couple are priests of Mieliki that the party meets after the priest's companions had been killed. Easily possible to change the gender of one of the priests. Although, this one would run into some of the complaints from above. But, not a huge deal.

The fourth adventure features no couples at all.

There are no couples in the fifth adventure.

So, in the first three adventures, a minor change to any one of them would add a same-sex couple to the series. No one is asking for all of them to be changed, that would be ludicrous. But, again, would anyone have a major issue if one of them were? Certainly that first adventure would work easily just as well with a same-sex couple as a hetero one. It wouldn't make the slightest difference to the adventure and it would go a long way towards paying more than lip service to inclusiveness.

Also note; bisexuals can have kids from a past relationship. Most dnd worlds don't seem to have much of a divorce stigma, or a sex outside of marriage stigma. Also, polyamorous people exist, and have throughout history. No reason they shouldn't in fantasy worlds that already canonically don't have as much sexual hangups as the real world.

Then you're relying on people to examine the whole range of products and evaluate the one with the lesbian villain in context.

Which they should, of course.

But many don't.

They don't have to. They will be aware of it. Just like people are aware of trends in comics of a similar nature. The lesbian villains just won't stand out in a negative way if there are other lesbian characters in other products of the same line.
There will be complaints from someone no matter what. That isn't a reason to not improve the situation.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Unless the relationship of certain NPCs plays a role in the actual adventure then it isn't worth detailing regardless of its nature. If evil is coming to destroy a peaceful little village then who is sleeping with whom isn't really a factor.

Of course it is. No, seriously. It absolutely is. What disaster movie have you ever watched wherein no one runs to their loved ones? Alien invasion movies? Any media that might form the basis for a dnd adventure or campaign? Seriously, I guarantee the vast majority feature people speaking to, worrying aloud about, and/or going out of their way to ensure the safety of their loved ones.
Every time that happens, if there is a spouse, lover, etc involved, the person's sexual preference and identity comes into play.

I have no interest in adventures that unrealistically and inexplicably ignore that entire facet of life.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

They don't have to. They will be aware of it. Just like people are aware of trends in comics of a similar nature. The lesbian villains just won't stand out in a negative way if there are other lesbian characters in other products of the same line.
There will be complaints from someone no matter what. That isn't a reason to not improve the situation.

Never said it was. I'm exploring what that improved situation would realistically look like.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Never said it was. I'm exploring what that improved situation would realistically look like.

Not how you're coming across, but I'll take your word for it.

 

[seebs]

If it actually matters to the adventure then hey, the more detailed info about the relationship the better. Its the window dressing stuff that doesn't need to take up space.

I think it adds a lot of value to a setting to give it those little plot hooks.

But mostly, I note that in 30+ years of playing this game, I'd never heard anyone suggest that it's a bad thing for adventures to mention that the owners of the bar are the barkeep and the barkeep's spouse... Until someone brought up whether sometimes they should be a same-sex couple.

Then we got the same thing we always get, which is people say that "that stuff" (meaning gay relationships) doesn't need to be in the game, and when people said that sounded sorta bigoted, people said "oh, well, I mean any relationships, none of them need to be in the game". But it wasn't a problem for anyone that I ever heard of to have marriages in the game until it came up in passing that some of them might be same-sex couples, at which point suddenly a lot of people are arguing that such things have no place in game materials if they aren't strictly necessary.

And that happens in every genre; I see it in discussions of books, comics, TV, movies, MMOs, etcetera.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Of course it is. No, seriously. It absolutely is. What disaster movie have you ever watched wherein no one runs to their loved ones? Alien invasion movies? Any media that might form the basis for a dnd adventure or campaign? Seriously, I guarantee the vast majority feature people speaking to, worrying aloud about, and/or going out of their way to ensure the safety of their loved ones.
Every time that happens, if there is a spouse, lover, etc involved, the person's sexual preference and identity comes into play.

I have no interest in adventures that unrealistically and inexplicably ignore that entire facet of life.

Yup. All disaster movies are the same. Against the backdrop of utter destruction, the most inane and pointless dialogue takes place. This was captured to perfection in the spoof : THATS ARMAGEDDON!


The Nurse: Leave her... come back to Montana with me.

The Architect: I could no sooner run away from her than myself.

The Nurse: I'm not asking you to run, I'm asking you to face reality!

The Architect: Whose reality, yours or mine?

The Nurse: My reality AND yours, that's whose!

The Architect: What are you saying?

The Nurse: Leave her! Come back to Montana with me!

The Architect: I could no more run away from her than I could run away from myself!

The Nurse: I'm not asking you to run, I'm asking you to face reality!

The Architect: Whose reality, yours or mine?

The Nurse: MY reality AND yours, that's whose!

The Architect: What are you saying?

 

[Lwaxy]

.


So, why does it have to be a big deal in game?

It doesn't HAVE to be, but, asides from RL considerations of inclusion, can be an enrichment for a game world. If I create a world, not every place is the same. Maybe it's ok and even the norm for the Deep Dwarfs to live in homo relationships, male couples raising the boys and females the girls. Yet the Hill Dwarfs only think it fine if both of the couple is infertile, or the Silver Elves don't allow it because there are so many of them left and they need couples to produce children. And maybe the Lowland Halflings don't even live as couples of any kind, but in married groups of 5 or 6, and male and female are just concepts to go by if they want offspring.

 

[Hussar]

Unless the relationship of certain NPCs plays a role in the actual adventure then it isn't worth detailing regardless of its nature. If evil is coming to destroy a peaceful little village then who is sleeping with whom isn't really a factor. In an investigation scenario that heavily depends on figuring out details of the relationships of the villagers in order to solve it then yes, those important details need to be defined.

The evil high priest of Orcus prefers his eggs over-easy. Who cares? The adventure he appears in isn't likely going to make this fact matter at all.

Reams of pages can be filled with irrelevant trivia. Details on the sex lives of NPCs can be filled in by the DM unless they matter in the resolution of the adventure.

Then you agree with me that having the occasional same-sex couple among the npc's wouldn't be a problem. Right?