D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[Shasarak]

Now how many famous and admired fat people can you name? Fat is more widely hated in America than gay, and skinny is idolized.

Homer Simpson, the most famous person in the world, is fat.

 

[Sunseeker]

Fatness is an inappropriate comparison. Who you sleep with doesn't affect how well you perform a role on tv, or how sexy you look while doing it. Being fat does. There is a niche market for non-ideal body types in visual media for some bad and some good reasons. There are plenty of homosexual folks who perfectly fid modern society's definition of beauty. Being fat simply isn't beneficial to some job roles. Now, not being hired for an IT job because your fat is a problem. Not being hired for a movie role because you don't fit the Hollywood ideal of beauty, well, yeah that's probably okay.

Further, adventurers are unlikely to stay fat. Portly? Stout? Thick? Sure there's some manner of biology here, but a lifestyle of lots of on-foot traveling with questionable availability of sustenance and even when you do have some it is likely high in carbs and protein as it's designed for an active individual. Fish, small game and fruits does not tend to lead to high weight even in a sedentary lifestyle. However you can sleep with anything under the sun, and aside from possible communicable diseases, same-sex-loving adventurers are going to be under the same physical stresses as their opposite-sex-loving fellows and their bodies are biologically more likely to have the same responses to lots of travel, lots of fighting and a diet of fruits and game.

Add on top of this a fantasy world that lacks high-fat, high-salt processed food and you only double the reasons why folks in games like D&D are unlikely to be fat unless they are incredibly wealthy.

 

[Hussar]

To be fair, most PC's are fantastically wealthy. But, really, we're not talking about PC's, since that's outside the scope of what we are looking at. If I choose to play an LGBT character, that's my choice. We're talking more about having depictions in supplements or other books. And, as I said, there are fairly common examples of overweight NPC's.

 

[Sunseeker]

To be fair, most PC's are fantastically wealthy. But, really, we're not talking about PC's, since that's outside the scope of what we are looking at. If I choose to play an LGBT character, that's my choice. We're talking more about having depictions in supplements or other books. And, as I said, there are fairly common examples of overweight NPC's.

Take the art for the "noble" NPC from the MM. That's what Adventurers turn into when they retire.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Further, adventurers are unlikely to stay fat. Portly? Stout? Thick? Sure there's some manner of biology here, but a lifestyle of lots of on-foot traveling with questionable availability of sustenance and even when you do have some it is likely high in carbs and protein as it's designed for an active individual. Fish, small game and fruits does not tend to lead to high weight even in a sedentary lifestyle.*snip* Add on top of this a fantasy world that lacks high-fat, high-salt processed food and you only double the reasons why folks in games like D&D are unlikely to be fat unless they are incredibly wealthy.

These are setting-dependent assumptions. In a game where the druid spends all of his leftover spell slots every night casting Goodberry half a dozen times so his buddies can have free healing, you can easily justify fat adventurers on the basis that these guys are routinely scarfing down 60 to 100 days' worth of nourishment per day. It may not affect their stats but they should blow up like blimps. Not that there's anything wrong with blimpy adventurers of course. ;-)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Take the art for the "noble" NPC from the MM. That's what Adventurers turn into when they retire.

And yet every single depiction of a PC in the PHB is either skinny and athletic or muscular and athletic. Ectomorphs, yes. Mesomorphs, yes. Endomorphs, no. Even the guy on PHB 176 is old and muscular, not flabby. I guess WotC wants players to identify with skinny people more than fat people, right?

That's all I have to say on that subject.

 

[Lanliss]

1.) They may not cite religious freedom as a reason not to serve or hire fat people, but they refuse for other reasons. Try getting a Hollywood agent as a fat guy. Agents will refuse to work with you because fat people just aren't as good as skinny people for TV. Fat people make less money and have a tougher time getting promoted. That's actually much worse than someone refusing to take an art commission (cakes and wedding photos) because it affects your life, and you can't just go to someone else. Fat people are more hated on this score.

2.) It's considered socially acceptable to mock people for being fat. Not so for gays. Mocking fat people would make some people quietly uncomfortable and will make others laugh. Maybe a brave soul would tell you that you're being uncool. Mocking gay people on the other hand will (rightly) get you socially shunned. I say rightly not because of some special characteristic of gay people but because mocking people, of any kind, is wrong. Ideally fat people would have the same protection but they don't.

3.) Fat people face government discrimination too. Until recently it was legal to single them out for special fees for health insurance. That's no longer the case but some people in Washington are trying to roll that back. Furthermore, as mentioned above, fat people unlike gay people have zero employment protections.

How many famous and admired gay people can you name? Now how many famous and admired fat people can you name? Fat is more widely hated in America than gay, and skinny is idolized.

But I speak as a fool--it mattereth not who is more hated, because competing to see who can be the biggest victim is a great way to make yourself miserable. And that is why I didn't originally respond to your brief catalog of slights; the exact details of whom is hated how are not germane to the point I was making, which is not the same point you were trying to make.

To be fair, being LGBT is not a matter of choice, as far as I know. Many fat people DO choose that path, either purposely being lazy, or unknowingly gaining weight without realizing it. Also, the extra fee makes sense to a degree, as there have been proven drawbacks on health due to being overweight. I am not trying to be insulting, and apologize if I appear so, I just prefer to keep facts straight. Some overweight people did not choose it, and are like that because of genetics or something out of their control, but a fair number knowingly choose to eat less healthy, or avoid exercise when they know they need it, making it very different from LGBT.

 

[Hussar]

And yet every single depiction of a PC in the PHB is either skinny and athletic or muscular and athletic. Ectomorphs, yes. Mesomorphs, yes. Endomorphs, no. Even the guy on PHB 176 is old and muscular, not flabby. I guess WotC wants players to identify with skinny people more than fat people, right?

That's all I have to say on that subject.

Well, I got a few minutes here, let's test this. (To be fair, if you look at the 3e MM, I'd say you'd have a very good point)

Page 13 Dwarf is certainly not skinny
Page 56 Dwarf cleric is pudgy
((I'm noticing a decided plethora of bloody elf pics)
Page 120 Halfling is portly (although, to be fair, the halfling pics in 5e are not exactly stellar examples of anything)
Page 132 Halfing is outright fat
Page 290 Blinded dwarf has a pretty hefty gut

Yeah, I'll certainly concede the point.

Although, to be fair, I was more interested in the rest of the world, rather than the PC's. PC's tend to be idealised individuals anyway, so, it's not surprising when the PHB is full of pretty people.

 

[Jester David]

Fat people, however, are.

Should I be demanding more fat NPCs in D&D? Maybe, if I viewed being fat the way some people view being LGBT. But I have no desire to poison my own self-esteem that way, so no, I demand nothing.

Popping back in just to say that the iconic occultist for Pathfinder is overweight explicitly because people wanted more plus-sized representation in the art.

Here's his bio and picture:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lhmh?Meet-the-Iconics-Mavaro


And ninja vanish!

 

[Celtavian]

To be fair, being LGBT is not a matter of choice, as far as I know. Many fat people DO choose that path, either purposely being lazy, or unknowingly gaining weight without realizing it. Also, the extra fee makes sense to a degree, as there have been proven drawbacks on health due to being overweight. I am not trying to be insulting, and apologize if I appear so, I just prefer to keep facts straight. Some overweight people did not choose it, and are like that because of genetics or something out of their control, but a fair number knowingly choose to eat less healthy, or avoid exercise when they know they need it, making it very different from LGBT.

It is provable that homosexual behavior is also a choice for a certain percentage of people. Examples of people making a choice to engage in homosexual behavior are heavily present in the pornography industry for both males and females. Homosexual behavior by choice is often ignored in the national narrative because homosexuality is being branded and sold like race. It was an intelligent propaganda choice to sell homosexuality as genetic without variation because people can more easily accept something if they believe the person engaging in it has no choice in the matter. I personally believe the research of Kinsey was more accurate in regard to sexual choice. Kinsey acknowledged that a certain segment of the homosexual population was genetically homosexual and heterosexual. Then there was everything in between which was humans choosing based on what they find pleasurable and acceptable due to experience. Very few people like to cite Kinsey's sexual research in the national narrative on homosexuality here and abroad. They also ignore prisons where normally heterosexual people often engage in homosexual behavior due to environmental pressures, which clearly indicates that environmental pressures can cause a person to change, even if temporarily, their sexual orientation. Overly complex discussion on sexuality is something Americans shy away from.

Obesity isn't always a choice. There are some that have a strong genetic predisposition for obesity. It's very hard for them to stay slim and healthy. Some of the genetic problems that can cause obesity involve hormones to regulate appetite and slower metabolisms. This makes it very hard to stay at a healthy weight.

And I will take my leave once again from this strange discussion.