SCAG Thread

[tila]

By way of information, the package guy just dropped mine off about 10 minutes ago. Claire was lucky, of the admins, her's arrived last night.

Girl Power!

 

[tila]

7. Admins try to get a handle on the situation by using the following form responses "This would be better addressed to WotC Customer Service" and "Your thoughts/comments/opinions have been noted. They will be given due consideration." These statements come across, unintentionally, as "F--- off, as despite being the designated representatives, we're not interested." and "We took your ideas and put them in the trash can where they belong." People become pissed off more.

I find that this happens with many things that have a hierarchical structure. Government is similar.

Those not involved with decision making, assume that their views are not heard because they do not see the results they are looking for, immediately or even down the road. I, as an RC, know for A FACT that that is the furthest from the truth than you know. We have endless discussions about a plethora of concerns. We DISCUSS them extensively. Make a decision to do something about it, or leave it because of reasons that the public CAN'T POSSIBLE know. Nor should they know.

 

[Ainulindalion]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that a hobby club (which is what AL is, though extremely large) should have reasoning behind decision-making that is not transparent to the membership. There is never a case where 'the public' shouldn't know - except when the core of the reasoning falls behind an NDA with the sponsor organization. Even then, I doubt it's really a case of shouldn't know, and more of a case of we can't tell you right now.

Obviously, when WotC makes a decision on its own, we can't expect to know the reasoning. They're a company. But the Admin and Leadership team should never feel it is necessary to hide their reasons for making a decision from the general membership. If they are unable to articulate their reasons for a decision to the general membership, they perhaps ought to reexamine the data points that lead to the decision.

 

[Ainulindalion]

Also, concerning my quote of point 7 - nothing there implies that the Admins aren't listening or don't care, just that it is many times perceived as such, because the form language used makes it come across that way.

 

[tila]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that a hobby club (which is what AL is, though extremely large) should have reasoning behind decision-making that is not transparent to the membership. There is never a case where 'the public' shouldn't know - except when the core of the reasoning falls behind an NDA with the sponsor organization. Even then, I doubt it's really a case of shouldn't know, and more of a case of we can't tell you right now.

Obviously, when WotC makes a decision on its own, we can't expect to know the reasoning. They're a company. But the Admin and Leadership team should never feel it is necessary to hide their reasons for making a decision from the general membership. If they are unable to articulate their reasons for a decision to the general membership, they perhaps ought to reexamine the data points that lead to the decision.

All documentation, adventures, and setting info has to be approved by WotC. So there can be no disclosure until they have approved it. Yes an NDA. And you assume that WotC gives us a reason for decision. That is not always the case.

 

[tila]

Also, concerning my quote of point 7 - nothing there implies that the Admins aren't listening or don't care, just that it is many times perceived as such, because the form language used makes it come across that way.

Honestly, perception is on the one perceiving. AL says what they can. But as humans, we get frustrated when we are pushed and asked the same thing over and over. A little empathy both way would help the situation.

Everyone needs to realize that we took these positions because we love this game. Just like the rest of you. We want this to be a great organization. But we are not going to please everyone. We try our damnedest but we simple can't. We work with a company whose employees also love the game as much as you. But they are a company. A company that has received millions of pieces of criticism and suggestions. A company that had an open play test and actually took suggestions from that to develop a better game.

WotC, in comparison to other companies, is very sympathetic to its fans. And when they make a decision that is not popular that is for the most part forgotten. Know that AL understands that some decisions are unpopular, however, most times it is not our decision and we don't get a why.

 

[Steve_MND]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that a hobby club (which is what AL is, though extremely large) should have reasoning behind decision-making that is not transparent to the membership.

While I understand the (legitimate) concern you perceive here, I think you're making a mistake in your assumption that the AL is a 'hobby club,' which it isn't -- it's more part of WotC/Hasbro's marketing department.

It doesn't exist to provide a meeting point for people of similar interests or anything like that (altho it may do that from time to time by accident). It exists to get the materials out there in the various game stores, and to promote public awareness and brand recognition of the product, and to provide additional cross-pollination and synergy between their other D&D products, such as their online MMO, video games, novel sales and such.

I'm afraid Organized Play as a 'hobby club' like what you are talking about hasn't existed since the heyday of the old RPGA, before Wizards took it over years ago and systematically dismantled it for its own use.

 

[Ainulindalion]

All documentation, adventures, and setting info has to be approved by WotC. So there can be no disclosure until they have approved it. Yes an NDA. And you assume that WotC gives us a reason for decision. That is not always the case.

Sure, that falls under the 'We can't tell you right now' portion. But why did the Admin team send option A for approval over option B? Are you saying all of that decision making process is covered by an NDA as well?

Honestly, perception is on the one perceiving. AL says what they can. But as humans, we get frustrated when we are pushed and asked the same thing over and over. A little empathy both way would help the situation.

Everyone needs to realize that we took these positions because we love this game. Just like the rest of you. We want this to be a great organization. But we are not going to please everyone. We try our damnedest but we simple can't. We work with a company whose employees also love the game as much as you. But they are a company. A company that has received millions of pieces of criticism and suggestions. A company that had an open play test and actually took suggestions from that to develop a better game.

WotC, in comparison to other companies, is very sympathetic to its fans. And when they make a decision that is not popular that is for the most part forgotten. Know that AL understands that some decisions are unpopular, however, most times it is not our decision and we don't get a why.

Sure, WotC has to approve any official statements (which is why I stand by my argument that the Admins, especially, are employees, even if not paid), but if the Admins are simply brainstormers, mouthpieces, editors, and question answers, but have no decision making authority at all, I don't think WotC would have called them Administrators. I might be wrong.

When it comes time for a decision, is it simply a matter of "Here, WotC, are the options we came up with. Let us know which one you want to run with, or if you want us to come up with different ones, or use one you guys have."? Or is it "WotC, here's the way we want to run this. Can we have approval?" Unless that entire process is covered under an NDA (possible, but seems silly, given that there are multiple references to RC and LC contribution to the process and that's a lot of NDAs), why couldn't the player base be told why the options submitted were chosen?

While I understand the (legitimate) concern you perceive here, I think you're making a mistake in your assumption that the AL is a 'hobby club,' which it isn't -- it's more part of WotC/Hasbro's marketing department.

It doesn't exist to provide a meeting point for people of similar interests or anything like that (altho it may do that from time to time by accident). It exists to get the materials out there in the various game stores, and to promote public awareness and brand recognition of the product, and to provide additional cross-pollination and synergy between their other D&D products, such as their online MMO, video games, novel sales and such.

I'm afraid Organized Play as a 'hobby club' like what you are talking about hasn't existed since the heyday of the old RPGA, before Wizards took it over years ago and systematically dismantled it for its own use.

Yes, very true. AL is a marketing project that is set up to pretend to be a hobby club. I'd argue that it does exist to allow people with an interest in D&D to find people with similar interest: If groups are forming, especially away from AL tables, more product will be sold. You don't play D&D by yourself (you can, and I even have, but that's not really the primary audience).

Sure, it has all the other benefits as well. That's why it's marketing. But to sell the core product line, you gotta actually have people playing the game, and that's what AL is meant to facilitate.

At least, that's my understanding.

 

[Pauper]

I'm sorta curious myself.

I thought I saw it in the thread, but maybe was imagining it.

It was only a passing reference, but Perkins noted that the story season after Rage of Demons would be 'giant-themed' with 'Shakespearean influences'. See the following:

http://www.nerdsonearth.com/2015/10/future-dnd-storylines-2016-giants-shakespeare/

--
Pauper

Edit - I'll be at GameholeCon 2015 later this week, so I'll try to track CP down and ask him about this.

 

[RCanine]

I think you're making a mistake in your assumption that the AL is a 'hobby club,' which it isn't -- it's more part of WotC/Hasbro's marketing department.

It doesn't exist to provide a meeting point for people of similar interests or anything like that

It cuts me to the quick to see people post things like this. Sure, this may be how WotC views it, but who cares? OP is an intensely local thing, and is driven in massive part by the community. It's inevitable that the community will feel some amount of ownership.

The sentiment of "stop complaining and let yourself be marketed to" from people outside WotC drives me up the wall. Don't listen.