D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

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"Infiltrated the pantheon" is a lovely phrase and I will use it elsewhere.
In her case it's quite literal. The barbarian tribes revere an assortment of totem animals -- Bear, Wolf, Tiger, and so on. Raven decided this was boring and snuck into civilized society to start bothering them as well. (Horse also made the transition, but by invitation.)

This is the kind of thing which I think actually makes for some really interesting potential plot points, and creates a richer game. I would not enjoy the game as much without the ability to talk about things like that. I mean, it's certainly a thing with historical precedent in human mythologies.
She owes a lot to Loki, plus the ornithological quirk that corvid sex is really hard to determine.
 

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seebs

Adventurer
Every word in that post is true. I've been in sw dev for 20 years. The industry falls all over itself to make women feel welcome. From engineering departments in colleges to HR to engineering departments in private companies. These lies about my industry are getting old and I won't tolerate them.

They're really not lies. They're experiences other people have had which are different from yours. I know a lot of men and women in tech, and we've pretty much all seen this stuff. It's out there. It's not completely universal, but it's out there.

And to bring it back to gender-and-gaming:

There are a few guys out there who are actively hostile to women in gaming. Not many, but a few. They exist.
There are a lot of guys out there who are mildly-hostile and not particularly welcoming.
There are a lot of guys out there who really just don't pay that much attention to gender at all.
There's some guys who are actively trying to recruit women to gaming.

But the overall impact of this is that women who get into gaming often have negative experiences of a kind that men never have, and that means that they are overall getting a less-fun experience, and are more likely to consider doing something else for recreation.

There was a blog article I read once that had to do with this; specifically, someone wanted to get some dice for a gamer friend, so she went to a gaming store and found some dice. She got charged $30 for a generic normal set of plastic dice, because the cashier (correctly) figured she wouldn't know any better. That kind of thing happens.

And yes, it really is an issue in the tech field. It may not seem like it to you, but the thing about a problem some people have is that not everyone has it. I've never been beaten up because someone thought I was gay; that doesn't mean the people who say this happened to them are lying.
 


I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Part of what I like about keeping this element of the game complex and multi-faceted is that it allows for really interesting stories to be told with the game that can't get easily told anywhere else. Not that it's something you'll always do, but it's something allowing for this permits you to do. Once you allow for characters and stories motivated by gender roles in a fantasy world you ennable plots like Cheery Littlebottom's courage to be openly female in a conservative dwarfish culture where everyone has beards.

Imagine what a warforged thinks of sexual identity - created as a tool for war, they were never meant to have relationships or experience love or have biological urges. What might Sharn or greater Khorvaire think of one that wanted to be a mother? What if that one wanted to be married to a dwarf woman who the warforged hope to make new warforged with?

Eberron's actually a great setting for this because of its themes of identity - think of what the family life of any Changeling might be like!

In FR, the idea of a cruel gender binary is reinforced with Drizzt's story, where men are not as valuable as women in drow society. Imagine a group of free drow somewhere on FR - imagine one led by the first known male priest of Lolth....perhaps one proud to not be male! Perhaps one ashamed of his maleness, hiding it and attempting to pass as a woman?

Heck, you don't need to dig too deeply into FR to uncover some interesting gender/sexuality plotlines. If the most powerful force in the world is magic and the most powerful source of magic is a goddess, what happens when a cabal of priestesses start barring men from practicing magic? Hunting them down, robbing them of their powers, claiming that true power is only wielded by women.

The SCAG talks a bit about the lack of gnomish goddesses and how that plays into gnomish concepts of religion and gender and adventure.

A lot of the source material for D&D is riddled with antiquated notions of gender, sexuality, and race. Lovecraft is a notoriously awful racist, and all the greatest pulp adventures were little more than male power fantasies. D&D itself hasn't always been welcoming (Example: read some of the tools in the 2e thief's handbook and realize that it's effectively (a) ignoring the possibility of black characters and (b) actually kind of encouraging painting your face black as a means of stealth). But as we tell our stories today, we have the power as players to change that narrative, to make our Great Old One warlock a black woman who will punch out Cthulu, to make our barbarian kings with scantily-clad maidens draping off of them into barbarian queens with scantily-clad maidens dripping off of them why not.

To me, that's one of the exciting things about an explicitly open welcome to diversity in the game. Like, I appreciate Tolkein's historical position and intentions, but now that Frodo and Sam are characters in my game, I can totally have them snuggling with each other for comfort during the rough times, and yeah, they can say that they're in love with each other (and it can be a doomed romance because Frodo cannot stay in these lands anymore...). Lets see how that changes the story.

Part of the awesomeness of D&D is taking old tropes and making them your own.
 

seebs

Adventurer
So as an attorney for the plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit I won't get paid anymore? ;)

Ahh, fair enough. Anyway, the person in question wasn't in the US. And honestly I don't entirely know that I believe that they were seriously a hiring manager, as opposed to pretending to be one because they thought it gave them credibility in an argument.

It was, however, a great example of how easy it is for people to be unaware of their own biases even when directly discussing them.
 


Generally, I don't think D&D should deal much with sexuality, since sex and gender aren't a particularly big part of the game. The PHB saying you can be "whatever you want to be" without any effect on mechanics when it comes to gender/sexuality is of course exactly what it should say.

As for groups being welcoming/unwelcoming of women, transgender, gay, asexual or whomever else, I think that would likely be a greater result of who is in the group, rather than what is in the rules. I don't think that the game itself has played much role in gaming groups that practice sexism or intolerance, but instead the individuals within those groups have.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Ahh, fair enough. Anyway, the person in question wasn't in the US. And honestly I don't entirely know that I believe that they were seriously a hiring manager, as opposed to pretending to be one because they thought it gave them credibility in an argument.

It was, however, a great example of how easy it is for people to be unaware of their own biases even when directly discussing them.

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It's actually really hard to prove discriminatory pay. Before Obama signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, you basically had to be aware of the discrimination when you were first given your pay rate, a practical hurdle that is VERY difficult to clear because people rarely know how much the company is paying other people with your role. There's still a big social stigma around discussing your personal finances in the States, which means that, in practice, I don't know what the woman who shares my title is actually paid at, and I don't think she knows what I'm paid at, either. And we like our jobs, so it's not like either of us is actively questioning the status quo - even if she's only making 80% of what I do, she's not likely to know, and even if she knows, she might not be eager to bring it up and cause chaos at a place she ultimately wants to keep working at.
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In D&D terms, it'd be curious to think about how D&D's typically very equal societies deal with things like women soldiers getting pregnant. It's implied that it's not a major deal for the organizations, which must mean they've dealt with the issue in a way that is broadly agreeable even to folks who would be like that boss. I get the impression that in FR, at least, there's "herbal things" that make casual sex and family planning viable, so that you can ignore biology until you're ready, which would consequently mean fewer orphans and "soldier's babies" and STD's and the like...which means there's something for villains to strike at if they want to disable an army!
 


seebs

Adventurer
Yes... So? Do you believe this is bad or racist in some way?

There's a historical practice called Blackface which consisted of using makeup to create racist caricatures of "black" appearances, which was done mostly by white performers who were doing it to make fun of the uneducated and inferior race they looked down on... But there are actual period examples of black performers using the same makeup and the same kinds of routines, which is a complication.

Some modern readers tend to take any and all makeup-to-change-skin-color as being "blackface" and therefore racist, whether or not it has anything to do with racial caricatures. I've seen people attack Shadow Link or Peter Pan's Shadow cosplayers for "blackface", for instance, or a person who was dressed as the TF2 Pyro for having soot-smudges, even though that's not even a little bit related to the same thing. YMMV.
 

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