Polymorph & Pregnancy

[TheTurboTornado]

Why can't they handle it? The brain is polymorphed too. The natural abilities of the creature become yours - that should include pheromones (the power of which is commonly overstated anyway).

You are absolutely correct when you say:"the brain is polymorphed, which includes pheromones". However, the mind isn't. Your mind remains the same. Else, you would literally have the memory of a goldfish when polymorphed into a goldfish. This needs to be clarified first.

As quoted from Wikipedia: Pheromones are chemicals capable of acting outside the body of the secreting individual to impact the behavior of the receiving individual. So what exactly happens? You new brain picks up these pheromones, and processes them. However, your mind, or conciousness, is not used to the impact they have on your behavior. Thus, you cannot properly keep them under control. But the more you get subjected to a certain type of pheromones, the more your mind gets used to it, until it reaches a point where it can fully handle the pheromones.

Still, good question. Thank you for your attentiveness.

 

[Scott DeWar]

When changed via polymorph, isn't there a will save every day to keep your own mind?

It can, if I am right, then to change instantly.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

When changed via polymorph, isn't there a will save every day to keep your own mind?

It can, if I am right, then to change instantly.

Not that I know of, and I just looked it up.

 

[Umbran]

However, your mind, or conciousness, is not used to the impact they have on your behavior.

I don't buy this. It sounds like a GM attempt to screw a player for using powers the game hands them to use without strings attached.

If we are allowing so much science as "pheromones", then the only impact they have on the mind is through the brain - if the brain has been altered to be appropriate, then the impact of them should be "normal" - if pheromones are part of the creature's normal mode of determining attractiveness, it would map to the character's normal mode of same. If you polymorph into a giant insect, yes, maybe you'll find an insect of your species attractive, but not like, "OMG, they are the most attractive thing you have ever seen! Bow-chicka-bow-wow!" There is no call to say, "Your mind isn't used to this," any more than there is call to tell someone who polymorphed into a bird, "Your mind isn't used to wings, so you cannot fly."

 

[Scott DeWar]

Strangely enough, I just checked Pathfinder and it says nothing about flight, but allows burrowing or swimming or other abilities as per the creature you become. I think that is an oversight.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

I don't buy this. It sounds like a GM attempt to screw a player for using powers the game hands them to use without strings attached.

If we are allowing so much science as "pheromones", then the only impact they have on the mind is through the brain - if the brain has been altered to be appropriate, then the impact of them should be "normal" - if pheromones are part of the creature's normal mode of determining attractiveness, it would map to the character's normal mode of same. If you polymorph into a giant insect, yes, maybe you'll find an insect of your species attractive, but not like, "OMG, they are the most attractive thing you have ever seen! Bow-chicka-bow-wow!" There is no call to say, "Your mind isn't used to this," any more than there is call to tell someone who polymorphed into a bird, "Your mind isn't used to wings, so you cannot fly."

I'm not trying to *bleep* with my players, I'm just trying to enhance the polymorphing experience. If you don't buy it, then I'm okay with that. But I think you are taking this a little too heavy. I never said that the reaction is "OMFG I WANT TO BOW CHICKA BOW WOW!!!!1!!!!11!" I said that you have a strange, hard to controllable urge. A male wizard who sees a girl reacts less heavily when said wizard, for the first time polymorphed into a woman, sees a guy with equal attraction levels (insert obligatory over 9000 joke here). Nothing to *bleep* with the players. Again, if you don't like it, that's fine by me.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm not trying to *bleep* with my players

But...how else will they get pregnant?




(I'll see myself out)

 

[TheTurboTornado]

But...how else will they get pregnant?




(I'll see myself out)

Because they bleep with NPC's, or possibly PC's. Not. With. Me.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

Let us leave the topic of pheromones for what they are right now and move on. There is something that has been bugging me, namely how to tackle abortion. How would you guys do it? Through a new spell, an existing spell, a potion, or a magic item? Or have I not read the BoEF well enough?

 

[Lanefan]

It's questions like this (among many others) which I was so hoping the d20-era Book of Erotic Fantasy would give useful coherent answers to. Oh the disappointment...

I had this sort of thing happen in my current campaign, in fact: an originally-female (human) character had been permanently changed to male and kept finding ways to temporarily change back to female; which usually lasted as long as it took for her to get hit with a Dispel Magic. However, during one of her temporarily-female phases she got pregnant; whereupon I quietly ruled to myself she would remain female no matter what until the pregnancy ended via any means be it her death, an abortion, coming to term, or whatever. Well, despite adventuring in the field for 6 of her 9 months she made it to full term and on giving birth almost immediately reverted to male...no breastfeeding for you, kid...which she'd otherwise have done some months prior.

But polymorph on someone already pregnant, or becoming pregnant while polymorphed (the latter is highly unlikely in my game as polymorph spells have a much lower duration than forever), is a can o' worms I'd never considered before.

For the sake of simplicity and sanity I think if a polymorph hit someone already pregnant I'd rule the fetus would go with the mother - turn a pregnant human into a dwarf and you get a pregnant dwarf carrying a dwarf child - and if birth somehow happened during the polymorph duration the spell would continue to affect both as if simultaneously cast on each; thus here a dwarf baby would be born and when the mother turned back to a human the baby would change with her. I'd also rule that a pregnant female could (usually*) only be polymorphed into a female, to preserve the pregnancy. (which means abortion, otherwise perfectly accepted in my world, cannot be achieved via a polymorph-return cycle) If the polymorph is to something that does not normally become pregnant as such, e.g. a salmon, I'd probably say the fetus is lost but it would almost certainly be a moot point as chances are extremely high that such polymorph is being done in order to kill the mother anyway.

The more frequent example of this sort of thing is shapeshifting Nature Clerics (Druids); here I've already ruled the fetus changes in lockstep, and as birth cannot happen while shapeshifted and as the shapeshift is controlled by the Druid she can and will - and must - change to her normal form in order to give birth. Shapeshifting cannot change one's gender, so that headache doesn't happen; and I only allow them to shapeshift into ordinary animals or birds - I can deal with a pregnant bird instead of an egg-laying one for this purpose.

* - except when polymorphing into an Orc; I have Orcs change gender on the fly somewhat randomly anyway as a product of their whacked-out biology, and in this case a male CAN be pregnant.

Another area where I have already thought over this sort of thing is if a pregnant character dies and is revived, what happens to the fetus? What I do is give the mother a saving throw on revival if such is done by Raise Dead (use of this spell implies both that the corpse is pretty much whole and hasn't been dead all that long) which if successful means the fetus comes back with her; but if revival is via Resurrection (requiring only a bit of the corpse) or by Reincarnation (probably into a different species) the fetus is lost.

Lan-"gods can impregnate others while shapeshifted - ordinary mortals, not so much"-efan