D&D 5E Life Cleric Multiclass armor prof

[BoldItalic]

Actually it is important because the possibility of there being a conflict hinges on the question whether there is any intention in the MC rules that you should never gain heavy armor prof from doing it under any circumstances.

If the other domains are clearly handing out heavy armor prof as part of a class feature, we no longer need to try to come up with any reading of the life cleric to resolve a conflict that doesn't exist in the first place. Because that proves that the MC restrictions are only affecting base class profs and not profs later added by class features.

Especially when the required reading nerfs other domains and subclasses that have nothing to do with heavy armor prof.

But Proficiencies are class features. Whether they are listed between "Hit Points" and "Equipment" on one page, or under "Bonus Proficiencies" on a domain or other archetype page, makes no difference. They are all listed under the big "Class Features" heading.

The proficiencies that a single-classed Life Cleric gains at level one are the proficiencies it starts with, are they not? They are its starting proficiencies. And the multiclassing rules say that you only gain some of the classes starting proficiencies, as explicitly listed in the table. They don't talk about "base class proficiencies" at all; they don't distinguish proficiencies depending on which page they appear on, they just talk about starting proficiences. In the table, no class grants heavy armour proficiency and it therefore follows, in my reading, that you can't gain heavy armour proficiency by multiclassing at all. If you want heavy armour proficiency, it has to come from your first class or from a feat.

If you feel that nerfs your multiclassing builds, well, sorry, but hey! as long as your DM allows it, you're good to go. But arguing that "everyone has to interpret the rules in such a way as to allow my build" is unconvincing to me.

I have no problem with you multiclassing into Life Cleric and taking the Heavily Armored feat in place of your next ability score increase (though you can't do be doing both at the same time, obviously). For example, a Ranger-3 levels up and multiclasses into Life Cleric-1, then next level-up takes Ranger-4 and gets the feat. You then have a Ranger-4/Life Cleric-1 with Heavy Armor proficiency. It just takes a bit of management.

Multiclassing is not a dodge to beat the system. It comes at a cost.

 

[Rhogar_Rarr]

Would you give a multi-classed Warlock 1 / Valor Bard 3 their extra proficiencies at level 3? I don't see why not. There's no real reason to not give out the proficiencies granted by the Cleric's domain features. There are other things specifically called out in multiclassing, such as a Cleric/Paladin's Channel Divinity, Extra Attacks, and Unarmored Defense.

If they wanted to deny a cleric's heavy armor or martial weapon proficiencies from DOMAIN FEATURES, they would have specifically listed that in the multiclass rules. I don't interpret the general multiclass rules about gained proficiencies to override the specific benefits of the Domain Features. In conclusion, a multiclass cleric does get their bonus proficiencies from their domain.

That's how I see it anyway, but to each their own.

 

[BoldItalic]

Would you give a multi-classed Warlock 1 / Valor Bard 3 their extra proficiencies at level 3? I don't see why not. There's no real reason to not give out the proficiencies granted by the Cleric's domain features. There are other things specifically called out in multiclassing, such as a Cleric/Paladin's Channel Divinity, Extra Attacks, and Unarmored Defense.

If they wanted to deny a cleric's heavy armor or martial weapon proficiencies from DOMAIN FEATURES, they would have specifically listed that in the multiclass rules. I don't interpret the general multiclass rules about gained proficiencies to over the specific benefits of the Domain Features. In conclusion, a multiclass cleric does get their bonus proficiencies from their domain.

That's how I see it anyway, but to each their own.

That's a quite excellent summary. I don't agree with your analysis, but I admire the clarity with which you have expressed it. There isn't a button for that, so I've given you XP anyway

To answer your question, yes, I would give a Valor Bard his bonus proficencies at level 3. I have no problem with that. It's only proficiencies normally granted at level one that are limited (arguably) by the multiclassing rules because level one is what you multiclass into. After that, the multiclassing proficiency rules become irrelevant.

 

[Arvin Natsuko]

Seems to me that it boils down to: Life Cleric Heavy Armor Proficency is

• A proficiency, so you don't get it, or
• A class feature, so you do get it

I've posted this on twitter.

I'll report back if I get a reply.

Nothing here?

Thnks

 

[BoldItalic]

Nothing here?

Thnks

No reply so far. But give the man time. It's the weekend, after all.

 

[Li Shenron]

So the conclusion is, just always take the class with the best proficiencies FIRST, and you'll dodge the penalty.

And all this rule accomplishes is to penalise one character story over another...

 

[Celtavian]

Getting heavy armor proficiency isn't a big deal. When you multiclass into cleric, you get light and medium armor and shields. Gaining heavy armor proficiency as a domain feature just means clerics of that particular domain train to use heavier armor. I don't see why that training would be denied because you are multiclassing. Is anyone going to deny the light and medium armor and shield proficiency anyone gains just for multiclassing into cleric?

 

[spectacle]

Getting heavy armor proficiency isn't a big deal. When you multiclass into cleric, you get light and medium armor and shields. Gaining heavy armor proficiency as a domain feature just means clerics of that particular domain train to use heavier armor. I don't see why that training would be denied because you are multiclassing. Is anyone going to deny the light and medium armor and shield proficiency anyone gains just for multiclassing into cleric?

The main question is why did they decide to limit heavy armor proficiency from multiclassing at all? Heavy armor is strong, but not so strong that it's worth taking a level in another class just for that, and you can get around the restriction by starting in the right class. I can see the need to limit skills and save proficiency from multiclassing, but not really weapons and armor. Why do I need to start as a fighter if I want to play a fighter/mage in plate armor?

 

[Li Shenron]

The main question is why did they decide to limit heavy armor proficiency from multiclassing at all? Heavy armor is strong, but not so strong that it's worth taking a level in another class just for that, and you can get around the restriction by starting in the right class. I can see the need to limit skills and save proficiency from multiclassing, but not really weapons and armor. Why do I need to start as a fighter if I want to play a fighter/mage in plate armor?

Exactly.

I would say that also skills aren't a big deal. I wouldn't have let the PC get ALL the skills prof from each class but instead just get as many as needed to nd up with as many as the best class (e.g. get 2 if multi-classing from a class with 2 skills into Rogue

 

[BoldItalic]

Is anyone going to deny the light and medium armor and shield proficiency anyone gains just for multiclassing into cleric?

Not me.

Gaining heavy armor proficiency as a domain feature just means clerics of that particular domain train to use heavier armor. I don't see why that training would be denied because you are multiclassing

In the same way that Fighters and Paladins of every description normally get Heavy Armor proficiency but are denied it if they arrive there by multiclassing, even though heavy armour is quintessentially a fighter-ish/paladin-ish lifestyle thing.

Allowing it for (some) Clerics would imply that those clerics were somehow more fighter-ish than Fighters and that doesn't fit the default concept.

However, in both cases you can multiclass and still get heavy armour proficiency but it costs you a feat.

Of course, you could create a campaign where clerics ruled and reserved heavy armour training for the chosen few (i.e. themselves) and denied it even to single-class fighters; then you could house-rule it how you liked.