D&D 5E Life Cleric Multiclass armor prof

[Celtavian]

Not me.


In the same way that Fighters and Paladins of every description normally get Heavy Armor proficiency but are denied it if they arrive there by multiclassing, even though heavy armour is quintessentially a fighter-ish/paladin-ish lifestyle thing.

Allowing it for (some) Clerics would imply that those clerics were somehow more fighter-ish than Fighters and that doesn't fit the default concept.

However, in both cases you can multiclass and still get heavy armour proficiency but it costs you a feat.

Of course, you could create a campaign where clerics ruled and reserved heavy armour training for the chosen few (i.e. themselves) and denied it even to single-class fighters; then you could house-rule it how you liked.

From what I've read, you are the one pushing a house rule unless you can somehow prove that abilities aren't granted according to class levels for archetypes. And I very much doubt that you can.

So your viewpoint is contradicted by the rules until you prove that character level applies to archetypes. You can house rule as you like if you feel domain abilities seem to be tramping on your idea of the fighter and paladin being the only ones that should gain heavy armor when multiclassing. I wouldn't expect any official support given the PHB is written and the designers tend to rule in favor of the rule as written. And archetypes all use class level, not character level. Not a single archetype uses character level.

I even had this clarified for warlock invocations. All the level requirements for warlock invocations are based on class level, not character level, even though it does not explicitly state this. I doubt any archetype abilities of any class will be ruled otherwise including cleric domain abilities.

 

[Celtavian]

But Proficiencies are class features. Whether they are listed between "Hit Points" and "Equipment" on one page, or under "Bonus Proficiencies" on a domain or other archetype page, makes no difference. They are all listed under the big "Class Features" heading.

This makes an immense difference. There are other classes that allow you to gain new proficiencies as a class features at a later level as determined by class level. Warlock, bard, barbarian, and cleric all get them, they do not state that character level supersedes class level when gaining the proficiencies.

The multiclassing section specifically explains how to handle proficiencies listed under Proficiencies, which is a separate section of class features. Nowhere does it imply that Proficiencies gained under archetypes are affected by Proficiencies section of Class features. Archetypes are a different section handled by different rules.

Lore Bard gains new skill proficiencies at 3rd level. It doesn't specify 3rd level bard. It just states "When you join the College of Lore at 3rd level,..." Are we to start assuming they mean character level versus class level for all archetypes? Or this is just for the Life Cleric? There is nothing in the Life Domain to indicate that they are using character level over class level. You only gain a domain when you take a cleric level at 1st level. It is pretty clear that they mean 1st level cleric (class level) since that is the only time you can choose a domain.

I can agree that rule isn't very well thought out. I agree that it doesn't make sense. I encourage you to change it to suit your preferred worldview. What I don't agree with is that you have any rules support. I don't think an official response will support your viewpoint. That shouldn't stop you from changing the rule to your preference.

 

[Celtavian]

The main question is why did they decide to limit heavy armor proficiency from multiclassing at all? Heavy armor is strong, but not so strong that it's worth taking a level in another class just for that, and you can get around the restriction by starting in the right class. I can see the need to limit skills and save proficiency from multiclassing, but not really weapons and armor. Why do I need to start as a fighter if I want to play a fighter/mage in plate armor?

Arbitrary balance decision. 5E doesn't seem built to make sense. It's built to play in a simple, straight-forward fashion with some rules that try to give a nod to verisimilitude, some that don't, and plenty of room for a DM to make modifications to suit his sensibilities without breaking the game.

 

[Li Shenron]

In the same way that Fighters and Paladins of every description normally get Heavy Armor proficiency but are denied it if they arrive there by multiclassing, even though heavy armour is quintessentially a fighter-ish/paladin-ish lifestyle thing.

Allowing it for (some) Clerics would imply that those clerics were somehow more fighter-ish than Fighters and that doesn't fit the default concept.

The problem of the official rule is that it is completely focused on one side of the problem: "a low-proficiency character multiclassing into a high-proficiency character should not get all the proficiencies", but why?

The other side of the problem is that a high-proficiency character multiclassing into a low-proficiency character get everything from the second class.

So if a Wizard multiclasses into Fighter she doesn't get all the armors and weapons, but if a Fighter multiclasses into Wizard she gets all the spells. This is unfair as well as stupid.

 

[Celtavian]

The problem of the official rule is that it is completely focused on one side of the problem: "a low-proficiency character multiclassing into a high-proficiency character should not get all the proficiencies", but why?

The other side of the problem is that a high-proficiency character multiclassing into a low-proficiency character get everything from the second class.

So if a Wizard multiclasses into Fighter she doesn't get all the armors and weapons, but if a Fighter multiclasses into Wizard she gets all the spells. This is unfair as well as stupid.

Exactly why I don't worry about things making sense. Or a fighter or wizard multiclassing into monk and getting full martial arts. That's why I require that players looking to multiclass incorporate into their backgrounds the classes they intend to multiclass into. Fits better with my idea of verisimilitude.

I wonder of BoldItalic would not disallow a spell book or give fewer spells for a fighter that didn't spend the time studying wizardry.

 

[BoldItalic]

From what I've read, you are the one pushing a house rule unless you can somehow prove that abilities aren't granted according to class levels for archetypes. And I very much doubt that you can.

So your viewpoint is contradicted by the rules until you prove that character level applies to archetypes. You can house rule as you like if you feel domain abilities seem to be tramping on your idea of the fighter and paladin being the only ones that should gain heavy armor when multiclassing. I wouldn't expect any official support given the PHB is written and the designers tend to rule in favor of the rule as written. And archetypes all use class level, not character level. Not a single archetype uses character level.

I even had this clarified for warlock invocations. All the level requirements for warlock invocations are based on class level, not character level, even though it does not explicitly state this. I doubt any archetype abilities of any class will be ruled otherwise including cleric domain abilities.

You seem to be reading my post backwards.

I do not suggest that a character multiclassing into Fighters or Paladin should get heavy armour proficiency. Quite the contrary, I say that he should not. And neither should Clerics of any persuasion, regardless of any class feature that would otherwise grant it to single classed clerics.

Class features that grant proficiencies are a special case, which is overridden by the multiclass rules. If the multiclass rules don't grant that specific proficiency, you don't get it regardless of what it says anywhere else.

 

[BoldItalic]

The multiclassing section specifically explains how to handle proficiencies listed under Proficiencies, which is a separate section of class features. Nowhere does it imply that Proficiencies gained under archetypes are affected by Proficiencies section of Class features. Archetypes are a different section handled by different rules.

I disagree. Nowhere in the multiclassing rules does it distinguish the origin of the proficiencies. It simply talks about "starting proficiencies". The proficiencies listed between "hit points" and "equipment" are not entitled "starting proficiencies". You're making that up.

 

[BoldItalic]

I wonder of BoldItalic would not disallow a spell book or give fewer spells for a fighter that didn't spend the time studying wizardry.

I would if the multiclassing rules said so. In the case of Fighter/Wizard, they say nothing.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Everyone should play as they like. I personally really like the multiclass rules of warhammer fantasy, where you need to provide everything you normally would get from a class. So you need Heavy armor to become a life cleric.
Actually as a wizard you have that special problem. Although you gain all class features a book full of spells does not instantly pop up.
If you chose to read the bonus proficiency rules in the most favourable interpretation, cleric multiclass may prove too good. Notice that in the other way round people claimed that warlock incantations were dependent on total character level instead of class level. This was errated. You notice people read it the most favourable way...

 

[BoldItalic]

I don't think an official response will support your viewpoint.

But it might. A priori it's 50/50. Exciting, isn't it?