Dragonborn in Faerun

[Al2O3]

Why is it that when WotC comes up with a new race its got to be splattered across all settings in precisely the same manner as they did in the original setting?

They did it with WarForged, they used their lame 4E version to ruin Tieflings in all settings and they do it with Dragonborn.
And Dragonborn are utterly the lamest attempt to do dragon-people I have ever seen-- from their mud-brown skin and their lack of tails and wings (taking away anything remotely "draconic" about them) for mechanical balancing reasons of all things! After all, in 4E they couldn't give Tieflings a balance bonus for having tails if Dragonborn had them too. Then there is the fact that they are 7' tall draconic creatures yet they are expected to be universally good and endeared to everyone-- even when dragons are the most recurring enemies, NEVER are they to be actually working for the dragons. And, of course, that this reptilian race has to show human sexual characteristics because if the girl ones don't have tiny waists and big bouncy boobs, then how is one to know which one is the girl? (As though it were somehow important for that to be immediately obvious and you couldn't just have it hard to tell with this particular race.)

It is just the worst.

Then again, Faerun already had something very similar-- they had the Dragonkin. So instead of forcing the utterly inept and gross abomination that dropped from the bowels of 4E, something I have a hard time believing even those who play them really wanted when they thought of Dragonpeople, why not drop the idea and just use Dragonkin or Draconians from Dragonlance?

As someone who stated playing during the 4e era and have yet to hear any reason why I should even take a look at anything older, I can tell you that playing a 7ft tall creature with scales and a draconic face very much appeals to me. And due to the good writing of Erin M Evans the two parts of Faerun I currently care about are Cormyr and Tymanther, with Tymanther being the part of Toril where I am truly interested in the culture etc. The rivalry or enmity with dragons (probably including good dragons) and avoiding the gods are very much part of why I like them.

The human sexual characteristics on dragonborn are bad choices on the part of artists, and I can see why non-asmodean tieflings are great as well.

 

[Mephista]

Especially now that Tymanther got squashed.

Hm? What do you mean? Its still there. At war, sure, but the country hasn't been destroyed. Unless you're talking abotu something that's not even out yet, in which case, shame on you for spoilers!

 

[Mephista]

Why is it that when WotC comes up with a new race its got to be splattered across all settings in precisely the same manner as they did in the original setting?

Enough with the edition warring. People enjoy playing them. That alone should be reason enough for them to have a place.

 

[Al2O3]

I think that it might be a reference to the SCAG where it is described that Tymanther has been reduced in size. So shame on WotC for posting spoilers in SCAG maybe?

 

[KahlessNestor]

Why is it that when WotC comes up with a new race its got to be splattered across all settings in precisely the same manner as they did in the original setting?

They did it with WarForged, they used their lame 4E version to ruin Tieflings in all settings and they do it with Dragonborn.
And Dragonborn are utterly the lamest attempt to do dragon-people I have ever seen-- from their mud-brown skin and their lack of tails and wings (taking away anything remotely "draconic" about them) for mechanical balancing reasons of all things! After all, in 4E they couldn't give Tieflings a balance bonus for having tails if Dragonborn had them too. Then there is the fact that they are 7' tall draconic creatures yet they are expected to be universally good and endeared to everyone-- even when dragons are the most recurring enemies, NEVER are they to be actually working for the dragons. And, of course, that this reptilian race has to show human sexual characteristics because if the girl ones don't have tiny waists and big bouncy boobs, then how is one to know which one is the girl? (As though it were somehow important for that to be immediately obvious and you couldn't just have it hard to tell with this particular race.)

It is just the worst.

Then again, Faerun already had something very similar-- they had the Dragonkin. So instead of forcing the utterly inept and gross abomination that dropped from the bowels of 4E, something I have a hard time believing even those who play them really wanted when they thought of Dragonpeople, why not drop the idea and just use Dragonkin or Draconians from Dragonlance?

I started in 4E too. Guess I didn't know I wasn't allowed to like dragonborn and tieflings.

And what are you talking about dragonborn having only mudbrown skin? They're all different colors. And tieflings without tails? You mean like these guys? All from 4E products:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b0/Tiefling_rangersm.JPG
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...iefling.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080924052904
https://theclichedtavern.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/rqrjj.jpg

And that's just three.

Maybe people want to play a noble race. Dragonkin in Dragonlance are evil. If you want evil dragonborn, you can do that. Just like you can have evil elves or evil humans. And dragonborn can be working for dragons. Pretty sure on Abeir there were still some that were slaves to them.

So...bitter much?

 

[KahlessNestor]

I think that it might be a reference to the SCAG where it is described that Tymanther has been reduced in size. So shame on WotC for posting spoilers in SCAG maybe?

Yeah, SCAG said that returning Unther got dropped on top of it. So all that exists now is the bit along the coast where most of the cities were, I think.

Sorry if that's spoilers

 

[Mephista]

Yeah, SCAG said that returning Unther got dropped on top of it. So all that exists now is the bit along the coast where most of the cities were, I think.

Sorry if that's spoilers

No, not quite. I meant the latest Brimstone Angel book comes out tomorrow, and it actually is set in Tymanther, and we're talking about during the latest Abyss storyline, completely post Sundering. The dragonborn country is very much there, and still going strong. What happened is that Unther did slam into Tymanther, but the two kinda merged, so they're -btoh- in the same spot, and the returned people have gone to war with the dragonborn to "kick them out."

I can't really say that either is crushed, considering that all the major cities and civilizations are around. Different landscape, but I don't consider that to be as important.

 

[Al2O3]

No, not quite. I meant the latest Brimstone Angel book comes out tomorrow, and it actually is set in Tymanther, and we're talking about during the latest Abyss storyline, completely post Sundering.

Based on the sample chapter, Ashes of the Tyrant starts off in 1486 DR, while The Herald is set or ends in 1487 DR. But it certainly is part of the Rage of Demons storyline, so there is either overlap or otherwise the Rage of Demons storyline takes part before the Sundering is totally finished. Not sure how strict they are with the timelines at WotC, since I am under the impression that Tyranny of Dragons was after the events in The Herald, but that the Adventurer Legaue Epics happen one after another. I guess that SCAG is based on something like 1488 DR or 1489 DR.

Just noticed that according to http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Archmage_(novel) the novel that triggers the Rage of Demons storyline takes place 1485 DR to 1486 DR.

 

[bedir than]

Enough with the edition warring. People enjoy playing them. That alone should be reason enough for them to have a place.

That's not an edition war. It's a battle in the idea that all races must be allowed in all settings. That attitude creates a concept that if taken to extremes means that house elves should be in Lord of the Rings. That's lazy world building.

For a hobby that expects classes to have limitations, races to have limitations, spells to have limitations, weapons to have limitations...
It strikes me as odd that there has been a modern development that a setting should not have racial or class limitations. We've begun concentrating so much on how to please players with the simple syrup of "play whatever you want" that they skip the meat and go right to that sweet dessert. It's how the Realms becomes the default for everything, because in the Realms you can be anything.
It's a saccharine method to world-building. It's lazy.

Dragonborn, and their related races such as the draconians, only belong where they make sense. They should not be in every world. Just like when you build your first ever character, as you build your world there are tough choices. Make them and live with them.

Don't make the Old Country Buffet. Make a living and breathing world.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Just curious, those that know previous editions, where dragonborn came from conceptually. 4e s3ems to have originally made them for Nerath, th POL setting. Obviously they were popular enough to find a place in Faerun. Not sure what the complaint there is, though, since Faerun was always a kitchen sink setting. And dragonborn don't have to be in YOUR FR campaign, so not sure on your complaints there, either.