D&D 5E Do you want your DM to fudge?

[Waterbizkit]

No fudge for me, thank you. If the dice are going to be rolled than they'll be abided by, otherwise what was the point?

I understand, to a degree anyway, those of you saying that you'd prefer rolls be fudged if it's for the sake of fun, but to me it's this kind of tinkering with fate that pulls me out of the moment. It makes me realize I'm playing a game rather than a character in a world.

All the talk of "bad luck" for the players or "good luck" for the DM? That happens in life. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow, no one is going to pull that dice roll. Likewise, that orc might get in a lucky shot and drop your character in a single swing, life is cruel sometimes. Deal with the results, move on and keep having fun. If I had a DM that kept pulling punches it would completely pull me out of the game. My character is out there interacting with the world and there will be consequences, good or bad.

But in the end having fun is the most important thing. If people prefer a game where their DM fudges rolls to soften the blow and guide the story in a more predetermined direction, the more power to them. In my group, if we got TPK'd three sessions in, that's still a fun story for us. Dungeons are littered with the corpses of failed adventurers after all.

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

Yes... for many of you the dice are the Voice of God, telling you exactly what happens and you cannot and dare not go against it. Great! Glad that works for you! For the rest of us... they're just a tool. To be used when necessary but never to be beholden to in every situation. There is no reason why they have to be held to a higher standard than the entire rest of the game.

You know, in a way, your paragraph here basically agrees with what the other posters are saying. Use the Dice when they're necessary, ignore them when they aren't. I think maybe where you differ is when you believe they are necessary.

I myself wasn't always a proponent of ignoring the Dice at times, but more recently I've seen the benefits of it. In a climactic moment where a player pulls out the stops, gets right into the game and delivers a truly moving speech to make his opponents say, surrender at the end of a bloody combat, it is totally within the rules to say a dice role isn't needed. Not only is it in the spirit of the game, it rewards great RP, encourages others to invest in the game to that extent, and shows that sometimes the Dice don't need to play God.

As another poster iserith is commonly saying, the Dice are only brought out when there's uncertainty. If everyone at the table agrees the speech was great, that it was moving and impactful and well delivered, it isn't sacrilege for the DM to put down the Dice and reward the player by having it work. If you don't want there to be a chance the Dice will show a failure, don't resort to rolling the Dice.

 

[Maxperson]

Knowing how probability works, and managing risk, is one part of making informed choices.

Having situations dictated to you because they are "more interesting" means you cannot even in principle "manage" that stuff. It's not a function of your choice anymore. It's a function of the DM's opinion.

Horse pucky. If I fudge 2-4 times over a two year period where the game is played weekly, there's no way it happens enough to cause you to be unable make informed choices.

 

[Maxperson]

Well-said, and generally agreed. If the speech was so impressive that you aren't going to accept a failure no matter what the dice say, don't use the dice. If the monster's going to last at least the first round, no matter how good the players' damage is nor how clever their plan is, make your monsters work that way.* If you don't actually want the dice to have final say, don't pretend they do when you're actually choosing it yourself.

Why on earth would I not use the dice if the speech was that impressive. Sometimes I just want to know the grade of the success with a random roll.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What is gained by rolling the dice in this scenario? I ask because I am a person that advocates not rolling the dice when you aren't going to go with whatever their result happens to be because the dice are in no way the most important part of the game.

Because we don't treat dice results as binary-- yes or no.

You make a skill check with a DC of 10. Rolling plus your modifier gives you a 15 might mean you succeed normally. Rolling a Nat 20 on the die might mean you succeed extraordinarily. Rolling the dice and adding your mod that gives you a 9 might mean failure but the DM might "fudge" it to give you success but at a cost. Rolling a 1 on the die might mean a spectacular failure.

The dice are tools to help us determine levels of success and failure, and let the DM and the rest of us improvise results we might not otherwise have thought of or did. Sure, we absolutely could improvise our stories with no dice at all... and that's not exactly a big whoop seeing as how many "roleplaying" parts of the game have some tables do that with no dice rolls whatsoever. But when we want to use the dice, the dice give us a whole variance of possible results.

Dice are a tool for variance in results. We use them as such.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Sometimes I just want to know the grade of the success with a random roll.

Exactly. Grades of success (and thus obviously also grades of failure.) And close results to target numbers might get fudged either way but with less impressive results.

That's what dice are good for and why they get brought out at our table.

 

[wwanno]

If my DM is going to engage the game system to help him or her determine an outcome, then I would prefer it if he or she abides by what dice tell him or her.

What if he fudges because he rolled 20s three times already and a fourth time would mean a tpk?I mean, what if he doesn't need to determine an outcome and "drive" his plot in his way? What if he needs only to let the plot continue? Whatever way it may continue...

No.

When I am playing the game, I want my successes and failures in the game to be there because of the actions my PC takes and the outcomes be based on the probabilities known at the table.

Dices don't care how smart your plan or decision was. Dices just roll.

 

[iserith]

What if he fudges because he rolled 20s three times already and a fourth time would mean a tpk?

I would suggest that the DM not roll dice when one of the possible outcomes is undesirable (to the DM and players).

I mean, what if he doesn't need to determine an outcome and "drive" his plot in his way? What if he needs only to let the plot continue? Whatever way it may continue...

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Could you clarify?

 

[wwanno]

I would suggest that the DM not roll dice when one of the possible outcomes is undesirable (to the DM and players).



I'm not sure what you're asking here. Could you clarify?

Well, in combat situation he must roll, he cannot avoid it, and if the dragon already scored 20 three times....it may lead to a tpk.
It would be worst if he decides that the dragon does something stupid, this would break the atmosphere.

When I fudge, I don't do it because I want to force my players to follow one path. I do only because I want my players to still have legs to walk, whatever path it might be.

If to fudge is the only way to avoid a tpk and a premature ending for a campaign, ok I will fudge.

Thanks God I don't have stupid players at my table, and when they were about to die (forcing me to fudge), it has never been due to a wrong choice they made.

 

[iserith]

Well, in combat situation he must roll, he cannot avoid it, and if the dragon already scored 20 three times....it may lead to a tpk.
It would be worst if he decides that the dragon does something stupid, this would break the atmosphere.

The rules serve the DM, not the other way around. The rules cannot require anything of the DM.

When I fudge, I don't do it because I want to force my players to follow one path. I do only because I want my players to still have legs to walk, whatever path it might be.

If to fudge is the only way to avoid a tpk and a premature ending for a campaign, ok I will fudge.

Thanks God I don't have stupid players at my table, and when they were about to die (forcing me to fudge), it has never been due to a wrong choice they made.

I don't really care if character deaths or TPKs happen, but if I did, then I would change the goals and stakes of challenges so that they do not include the possibility of character death. No fudging is required when the stakes, win or lose, are both acceptable.