D&D 4E SRD5 Yet another chance to clone 4e?

D'karr · Jan 19, 2016

EzekielRaiden said:
Also, [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION]: The name of a mechanic may actually be copyrightable. It's a bit of a legal grey area, as I understand it (standard disclaimer, IANAL, etc.) Words like "card" and "dice," which refer to implements, cannot be copyrighted. And certain terms that have been in use by too many other companies (like "HP," "experience," "level," etc.) can't either. But something pretty specific, e.g. "Healing Surge," may be copyrightable...and given the toeing-the-legal-limits nature of most "cloning" projects, it's usually considered unwise to do anything that even might be a problem.

Having seen discussions with you on multiple topics involving 4e I have respect for your opinion. I don't mean to sound rude or disrespectful so please forgive me if it sounds that way. Even though what you say might be in some specific context applicable, it does not invalidate what I had already said, "game mechanics are not copyrightable". Since you are not a lawyer, I'd rather take my legal advice from an actual copyright lawyer. There might be an entire rabbit hole of exceptions, and adjunct discussions dealing with the subject, but the basic premise still stands. Legal discussions in internet forums seem to always devolve to the "legality" or "ethicality" of something with no real legal background except what someone opines about the subject or has read in an internet forum.

I will leave it at this. I prefer not to get into legal arguments about things that my lawyer is actually better suited to handle. The discussion would be pointless since neither you nor I are lawyers, but the weight of my lawyer's actual legal advice has much more weight than opinions on the internet. Anyone taking legal advice from an internet forum is a fool that deserves whatever they get since you really get what you paid for. The adage of "opinions" is very apt to these type of discussions. I don't take my car to be repaired by my dentist, and I don't go looking for legal advice on internet forums.

Having said all that, take it as a definite that I still respect your opinions and insight into many things dealing with gaming and 4e in particular. In many threads that I've seen your postings I usually find myself agreeing with your opinions as they are well reasoned and insightful.

Thanks.

fjw70 · Jan 19, 2016

I guess we need a 4e SRD fir the OGL so someone can copy of paste certain elements of 4e into an updated game.

MoonSong · Jan 19, 2016

D'karr said:
Having seen discussions with you on multiple topics involving 4e I have respect for your opinion. I don't mean to sound rude or disrespectful so please forgive me if it sounds that way. Even though what you say might be in some specific context applicable, it does not invalidate what I had already said, "game mechanics are not copyrightable". Since you are not a lawyer, I'd rather take my legal advice from an actual copyright lawyer. There might be an entire rabbit hole of exceptions, and adjunct discussions dealing with the subject, but the basic premise still stands. Legal discussions in internet forums seem to always devolve to the "legality" or "ethicality" of something with no real legal background except what someone opines about the subject or has read in an internet forum.

I will leave it at this. I prefer not to get into legal arguments about things that my lawyer is actually better suited to handle. The discussion would be pointless since neither you nor I are lawyers, but the weight of my lawyer's actual legal advice has much more weight than opinions on the internet. Anyone taking legal advice from an internet forum is a fool that deserves whatever they get since you really get what you paid for. The adage of "opinions" is very apt to these type of discussions. I don't take my car to be repaired by my dentist, and I don't go looking for legal advice on internet forums.

Having said all that, take it as a definite that I still respect your opinions and insight into many things dealing with gaming and 4e in particular. In many threads that I've seen your postings I usually find myself agreeing with your opinions as they are well reasoned and insightful.

Thanks.

Actually, I don't think anybody but the guy from Kingdom of Kalamar can give you those answers. I don't think there is an IP attorney anywhere who specializes on RPGs. So, the way to proceed is to avoid copying at all costs.

D'karr · Jan 20, 2016

MoonSong said:
Actually, I don't think anybody but the guy from Kingdom of Kalamar can give you those answers. I don't think there is an IP attorney anywhere who specializes on RPGs. So, the way to proceed is to avoid copying at all costs.

Sure that would be a way to go. Then again another way to go is to know what you can do when you start and stay within those boundaries. RPG's are not some sort of super secret special type of copyrighted material different from anything else. But you can do as you say, nobody is stopping you from doing that.

Neonchameleon · Jan 20, 2016

MoonSong said:
Actually, I don't think anybody but the guy from Kingdom of Kalamar can give you those answers. I don't think there is an IP attorney anywhere who specializes on RPGs. So, the way to proceed is to avoid copying at all costs.

I believe OSRIC was put together by an IP lawyer being careful when they reverse engineered 1e.

MoonSong · Jan 20, 2016

Neonchameleon said:
I believe OSRIC was put together by an IP lawyer being careful when they reverse engineered 1e.

But do we have an IP lawyer who knows 4e that well? (3 books vs 15+ of 4e)

MoonSong · Jan 20, 2016

D'karr said:
Sure that would be a way to go. Then again another way to go is to know what you can do when you start and stay within those boundaries. RPG's are not some sort of super secret special type of copyrighted material different from anything else. But you can do as you say, nobody is stopping you from doing that.

No lawyer can tell you that with an RPG. Or if they could, it would be thousands of rules long. They can at best tell you if something you have written is infringing. And they will need to comb every single 4e book to help with it.

D'karr · Jan 20, 2016

MoonSong said:
But do we have an IP lawyer who knows 4e that well? (3 books vs 15+ of 4e)

The amount of books is not really the issue. After all, the 3.x SRD was core only. And as for the IP lawyer, yes we do.

D'karr · Jan 20, 2016

MoonSong said:
No lawyer can tell you that with an RPG. Or if they could, it would be thousands of rules long. They can at best tell you if something you have written is infringing. And they will need to comb every single 4e book to help with it.

I'm totally OK with agreeing to disagree and leaving it at that.