D&D 5E Barbarian Druid Query ?
- Thread starter Amatiel
- Start date
pming
Legend
Hiya!
This question is going to boil down to this: What does your DM say?
That's pretty much the end of the thread, really. Sure, folks will come on here and present their interpretation and ruling, but that's the same as saying "Ask your DM". So...
My Ruling: No. If you are a non-original form (re: not human, elf or whatever your actual race is), you get what that form does or is capable of. As far as I know, animals can't have classes...so no, if you are a bear, you are a bear; you are not a "bear barbarian/druid". You are a bear. Period. No class abilities are capable, hell, you can't even talk or manipulate things requiring an disposable thumb. And, IMHO, any DM that allows such shenanigans is opening up a world of hurt for themselves as levels (and other classes?) are gained. So, if you are DM...I highly suggest saying "Nope, sorry".
^_^
Paul L. Ming
This question is going to boil down to this: What does your DM say?
That's pretty much the end of the thread, really. Sure, folks will come on here and present their interpretation and ruling, but that's the same as saying "Ask your DM". So...
My Ruling: No. If you are a non-original form (re: not human, elf or whatever your actual race is), you get what that form does or is capable of. As far as I know, animals can't have classes...so no, if you are a bear, you are a bear; you are not a "bear barbarian/druid". You are a bear. Period. No class abilities are capable, hell, you can't even talk or manipulate things requiring an disposable thumb. And, IMHO, any DM that allows such shenanigans is opening up a world of hurt for themselves as levels (and other classes?) are gained. So, if you are DM...I highly suggest saying "Nope, sorry".
^_^
Paul L. Ming
For polymorph, sure. But "you retain the benefit of any features" includes things such as unarmored defense, fast movement, savage attacks. Darkvision is specifically spelled out as not "physically capable of doing so".
You may rule that raging requires a secret handshake or some other humanoid-only action, but you will remain the minority opinion.
ClockworkNinja
Explorer
From the latest rules answers: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-january-2016
"a druid/barbarian who transforms into a beast form that has natural armor can use either the beast’s natural armor or Unarmored Defense"
Suggesting that you can still use class abilities while in animal form.
Mentally you are unchanged while in beast form, so you should be able to rage as a bear.
The "Extra Attack" class feature states that it gives you an extra attack when you take the "Attack" action on your turn. Using the "Multi-attack" feature of an animal form also requires an action. They do not stack.
"a druid/barbarian who transforms into a beast form that has natural armor can use either the beast’s natural armor or Unarmored Defense"
Suggesting that you can still use class abilities while in animal form.
Mentally you are unchanged while in beast form, so you should be able to rage as a bear.
The "Extra Attack" class feature states that it gives you an extra attack when you take the "Attack" action on your turn. Using the "Multi-attack" feature of an animal form also requires an action. They do not stack.
Illithidbix
Explorer
Oh, that *is* a good question.
Again I agree the answer is "What your DM says", it's one of the fringe complications of multiclass.
Going by RAW is tricky since Wild Shape is possibly the most complicated class ability in the game and a few bits are somewhat open to interpretation. However:
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. is the most relevant section. - So I can't see anything in the Rules as Written that would disallow it.
Conceptually I can see it argued either way... If raging just a mental act, or is part of it the fact that a barbarian in extreme physical condition? Is this retained or lost by the Wildshape process?
As a DM the two key points to consider by allowing it or not are:
In terms of Mechanical Balance, getting the damage resistance whilst having the "Beast Wild Shape Buffer" seems incredibly powerful. So I'd be worry of the synergy of two of the tankiest class abilities in the game.
It has been mentioned that in actual play Beast Hitpoints actually drop remarkably quickly due to the amount of damage monsters do at mid-high levels vs low hitpoints.
So I would be worried it could in fact be one of the few times multiclassing does lead to a spike in power.
"Overpowered" being only really relevant if the Druidbarian overshadows another party member to the point where it impairs their enjoyment.
In terms of Narrative Awesome: TURNING INTO A REALLY ANGRY BEAR! RAAAAAAAAAAAR!
You get to be a Bear Totem BEARBARIAN! who turns into a BEAR to get the RESISTANCE OF A BEAR whilst they BEAR!
Or a WOLFBARIAN who turns into a DIRE WOLF with both pack tactics and Wolf Rage thingy and DRAGGING PEOPLE PRONE and RAAAR!
So yes, it's a difficult choice, but the latter will probably win out for me.
Again I agree the answer is "What your DM says", it's one of the fringe complications of multiclass.
Going by RAW is tricky since Wild Shape is possibly the most complicated class ability in the game and a few bits are somewhat open to interpretation. However:
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. is the most relevant section. - So I can't see anything in the Rules as Written that would disallow it.
Conceptually I can see it argued either way... If raging just a mental act, or is part of it the fact that a barbarian in extreme physical condition? Is this retained or lost by the Wildshape process?
As a DM the two key points to consider by allowing it or not are:
In terms of Mechanical Balance, getting the damage resistance whilst having the "Beast Wild Shape Buffer" seems incredibly powerful. So I'd be worry of the synergy of two of the tankiest class abilities in the game.
It has been mentioned that in actual play Beast Hitpoints actually drop remarkably quickly due to the amount of damage monsters do at mid-high levels vs low hitpoints.
So I would be worried it could in fact be one of the few times multiclassing does lead to a spike in power.
"Overpowered" being only really relevant if the Druidbarian overshadows another party member to the point where it impairs their enjoyment.
In terms of Narrative Awesome: TURNING INTO A REALLY ANGRY BEAR! RAAAAAAAAAAAR!
You get to be a Bear Totem BEARBARIAN! who turns into a BEAR to get the RESISTANCE OF A BEAR whilst they BEAR!
Or a WOLFBARIAN who turns into a DIRE WOLF with both pack tactics and Wolf Rage thingy and DRAGGING PEOPLE PRONE and RAAAR!
So yes, it's a difficult choice, but the latter will probably win out for me.
What Illi said. I don't see why they would benefit from say unarmored defense, from the hiding ability of an elf, poison resistance of a dwarf, action surge of a fighter, but not raging.
Now you can say that all these things are impossible as a weasel or giant crocodile. But then the rule is pointless, as everything is physical. Prof saves are explicitly called out as kept, dark vision and multi attack extra attack specifically called out as not likely because forms were balanced around those.
I would rule that unless something is completely impossible and not specifically called out like dark vision and multi attack they can do it.
So if you have the actor feat. It's not going to work as an elk, but if you're a parrot you can mimic speech ad per the feat.
Now you can say that all these things are impossible as a weasel or giant crocodile. But then the rule is pointless, as everything is physical. Prof saves are explicitly called out as kept, dark vision and multi attack extra attack specifically called out as not likely because forms were balanced around those.
I would rule that unless something is completely impossible and not specifically called out like dark vision and multi attack they can do it.
So if you have the actor feat. It's not going to work as an elk, but if you're a parrot you can mimic speech ad per the feat.
