Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I agree. I've said more than once that I would have given the PC a roll. However, the DM is within his rights to rule that the outcome is not uncertain and not have that roll.
D&D 5E Was I in the wrong?
- Thread starter randrak
- Start date
I agree. I've said more than once that I would have given the PC a roll. However, the DM is within his rights to rule that the outcome is not uncertain and not have that roll.
The Old Crow
Explorer
Exactly. The PC should have had a chance to see that the ring and guantlets were there, too, assuming he could see into the bundle just as the NPC could. Just because the player forget they were bundled in there shouldn't render the ring and guantlets invisible to the PC.
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ExploderWizard
Hero
Being on the phone during play is IN game activity. Concentrating on a device instead of what is happening at the table is a CHOICE. If that choice leads to making idiotic mistakes then start making better choices rather than blaming someone else for your own lack of focus.
The players bundled the items together as a way to get it back into town. That doesn't mean that they intended to sell it all as one piece.
Regardless of whether the DM screwed them over or not, it still is not a scenario that the DM should have gotten himself into.
Players can be very sensitive about their characters. If they feel a DM is screwing them, the game can become unenjoyable for them. An unenjoyable game can end up being no game when players don't want to play with you anymore.
Regardless of whether the DM screwed them over or not, it still is not a scenario that the DM should have gotten himself into.
Players can be very sensitive about their characters. If they feel a DM is screwing them, the game can become unenjoyable for them. An unenjoyable game can end up being no game when players don't want to play with you anymore.
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
Maybe it is just me and my group, but in a situation like this, as I described each item found a player would be writing them down. The relevant section of this writing would read like this:
Adamantine Armor, 1 suit
Gauntlets, 1 pair
Ring
Each having a brief description so that it is clear which item of that type is in question later, such as "Ring, engraved gold band set with 3 red stones" and "Ring, stylized shield device" to keep the two straight.
Then, when selling the armor the player would likely interpret "..the whole set?" as meaning all the pieces of the armor, not just some of them (like selling off everything but the breastplate). After the sale, the list of items would still read:
Gauntlets, 1 pair
Ring (and description)
So the player, knowing they didn't mean to sell those items would firmly believe them still in the possession of the party - and be rightfully agitated if I as DM were trying to insist their character had made a mistake and sold them with the armor because I decided my interpretation of "I sell the armor to the blacksmith" was "I sell the armor, guantlets, and ring to the blacksmith."
And if I did end up misinterpreting something the players had their characters do so that what I think happened and what they think happened differ? I'd say "Oh, sorry I misunderstood. Let's adjust that then, and move on." because I have no malicious or disciplinary intent towards my players.
Adamantine Armor, 1 suit
Gauntlets, 1 pair
Ring
Each having a brief description so that it is clear which item of that type is in question later, such as "Ring, engraved gold band set with 3 red stones" and "Ring, stylized shield device" to keep the two straight.
Then, when selling the armor the player would likely interpret "..the whole set?" as meaning all the pieces of the armor, not just some of them (like selling off everything but the breastplate). After the sale, the list of items would still read:
Gauntlets, 1 pair
Ring (and description)
So the player, knowing they didn't mean to sell those items would firmly believe them still in the possession of the party - and be rightfully agitated if I as DM were trying to insist their character had made a mistake and sold them with the armor because I decided my interpretation of "I sell the armor to the blacksmith" was "I sell the armor, guantlets, and ring to the blacksmith."
And if I did end up misinterpreting something the players had their characters do so that what I think happened and what they think happened differ? I'd say "Oh, sorry I misunderstood. Let's adjust that then, and move on." because I have no malicious or disciplinary intent towards my players.
jgsugden
Legend
Step 1: Ask players to put the phones away at the table. If they need to take a call or look something up, do it elsewhere. Work their lack of attention / presence into the game if easily possible and make it clear they need to follow up with the other players to see what they missed.
Step 2: The DM's job is to make challenges that are fun for the players. If you have a neat idea for a challenge and it falls flat, either find a way to tweak it or find a different group of players to enjoy it.
Step 3: Whenever you "pull something over" on the group, make sure there are subtle hints available to them at the moment of truth. Here is how I would have handled the exchange with the blacksmith:
Ranger: "I take the armor to the blacksmith to sell. How much does he offer?"
DM: "Roll me a couple d20s". (The DM intends for the first to be an insight check and the second to be a perception check. Insight to read the blacksmith's reaction, perception to just notice the ring and gauntlets).
Ranger: "Why?"
DM: "Ability checks."
Ranger: "Which abilities?"
DM: "If I wanted you to know that, I'd have told you." (Sticks out tongue).
Ranger: "17 and 4 on the die. I don't know what to add to them."
DM: "I do." (DM rolls a deception check for the blacksmith and gets an 8 - much lower than the PC's 17+1 Insight) "You step into the blacksmith's shop and are surprised by how clean it is. Instead of soot and grime, it is spotless and smells of lemon. You notice a cloth casually floating along a windowsill dusting by itself - a sign that this blacksmith can afford a magical servant. He is a middle aged human with a well-muscled frame and a grim demeanor ... at least at first. As soon as you drop the armor on the table and offer to sell it, his eyes nearly fly out of his head. He is clearly very interested. He immediately offers you [the fair price for the armor]."
Ranger: "Is that a good price for the armor?"
DM: "Roll an intelligence check."
Ranger: "18."
DM: "You've heard tales of a similar suit being sold for slightly less than that, but that was some time ago and far away. You might find someone willing to offer a bit more somewhere else, but it seems in the right tourney field."
Ranger: "OK."
DM: "He is practically salivating as he asks if you have a deal."
Ranger: "Yeah, I guess."
DM: "The blacksmith is trying to contain his excitement, but you can tell he is extremely happy. He runs to the back of the shop and returns a few moments later with the funds in platinum. He places the coins on the counter for you and then grabs the armor. As you turn to leave, you see him start to inspect each part of the armor in detail, mumbling under his breath as he does so."
Ranger: "Good for him. I grab the coins and go."
DM: "Roll me a d20."
Player: "Why?"
DM: "If I wanted you to know...."
Ranger: "Ugh ... 13."
DM: "You heard him mumble that THIS is going to make it so much easier for him to work faster."
Ranger: "Huh? Why is armor going to.... Never mind. More power to him. Weirdo."
DM: (Rolls a die for no reason): "He doesn't even seem to notice you leave, much less note your disdain."
Step 2: The DM's job is to make challenges that are fun for the players. If you have a neat idea for a challenge and it falls flat, either find a way to tweak it or find a different group of players to enjoy it.
Step 3: Whenever you "pull something over" on the group, make sure there are subtle hints available to them at the moment of truth. Here is how I would have handled the exchange with the blacksmith:
Ranger: "I take the armor to the blacksmith to sell. How much does he offer?"
DM: "Roll me a couple d20s". (The DM intends for the first to be an insight check and the second to be a perception check. Insight to read the blacksmith's reaction, perception to just notice the ring and gauntlets).
Ranger: "Why?"
DM: "Ability checks."
Ranger: "Which abilities?"
DM: "If I wanted you to know that, I'd have told you." (Sticks out tongue).
Ranger: "17 and 4 on the die. I don't know what to add to them."
DM: "I do." (DM rolls a deception check for the blacksmith and gets an 8 - much lower than the PC's 17+1 Insight) "You step into the blacksmith's shop and are surprised by how clean it is. Instead of soot and grime, it is spotless and smells of lemon. You notice a cloth casually floating along a windowsill dusting by itself - a sign that this blacksmith can afford a magical servant. He is a middle aged human with a well-muscled frame and a grim demeanor ... at least at first. As soon as you drop the armor on the table and offer to sell it, his eyes nearly fly out of his head. He is clearly very interested. He immediately offers you [the fair price for the armor]."
Ranger: "Is that a good price for the armor?"
DM: "Roll an intelligence check."
Ranger: "18."
DM: "You've heard tales of a similar suit being sold for slightly less than that, but that was some time ago and far away. You might find someone willing to offer a bit more somewhere else, but it seems in the right tourney field."
Ranger: "OK."
DM: "He is practically salivating as he asks if you have a deal."
Ranger: "Yeah, I guess."
DM: "The blacksmith is trying to contain his excitement, but you can tell he is extremely happy. He runs to the back of the shop and returns a few moments later with the funds in platinum. He places the coins on the counter for you and then grabs the armor. As you turn to leave, you see him start to inspect each part of the armor in detail, mumbling under his breath as he does so."
Ranger: "Good for him. I grab the coins and go."
DM: "Roll me a d20."
Player: "Why?"
DM: "If I wanted you to know...."
Ranger: "Ugh ... 13."
DM: "You heard him mumble that THIS is going to make it so much easier for him to work faster."
Ranger: "Huh? Why is armor going to.... Never mind. More power to him. Weirdo."
DM: (Rolls a die for no reason): "He doesn't even seem to notice you leave, much less note your disdain."
CanadienneBacon
Explorer
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
It's not the size of the device, but what you do with it that counts.
At our table, 75% of players use a tablet and/or phone for their character or references. But out-of-game behavior is frowned upon, unless there's a family emergency.
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