D&D 5E Just checking: Hordebreaker Ranger

[CapnZapp]

Is this fairly by the RAW?

Q1. Level 5 Ranger making four crossbow attacks, dealing 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex and 1d6+Dex damage.

Two attacks from Extra Attack. One bonus attack from Crossbow Expert. Fourth attack from Horde Breaker. One extra d6 damage to the three attacks on the main target.

Yes?

Q2. If a Fighter character has Battlemaster dice, and specifically one of the "add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll" maneuvers (such as Distracting Strike or Menacing Attack)...

..can the character wait until he rolls a critical, then spend a superiority die to "double" it (because the attack was a critical), adding not just +1d8 damage but 2d8 damage?

Assuming "yes and yes", my multiclassed player would do a cool 4d6+2d8 damage (+modifiers) on his crits.

Legit, yes?

 

[Li Shenron]

Is this fairly by the RAW?

Q1. Level 5 Ranger making four crossbow attacks, dealing 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex and 1d6+Dex damage.

Two attacks from Extra Attack. One bonus attack from Crossbow Expert. Fourth attack from Horde Breaker. One extra d6 damage to the three attacks on the main target.

Yes?

Not sure where you got the bonus damage from, but the number of attacks seems right to me.

 

[Li Shenron]

"add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll"

Certainly you can wait to see if your attack was a critical, because all these maneuvers starts with "when you hit", and in that case you already know if you have rolled a natural 20. You always make your decision to use these maneuvers after you hit, and nobody can tell you that you must...

As a tactic, I don't think it would be as useful as it sounds, because criticals just happen randomly, with no relation to whether this is a good or bad time to boost your damage. It is not always better to "spend" a superiority dice just because it's a critical, for example you might be fighting an easy target (or a badly wounded one), and the extra damage may be wasted.

 

[Vicaring]

Is this fairly by the RAW?


Q1. Level 5 Ranger making four crossbow attacks, dealing 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex, 2d6+Dex and 1d6+Dex damage.


Two attacks from Extra Attack. One bonus attack from Crossbow Expert. Fourth attack from Horde Breaker. One extra d6 damage to the three attacks on the main target.


Yes?
....
Legit, yes?

No. See the Sage Advice compendium, which is considered errata and RAW, specifically this question: "Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon?"

The answer, shortened to its relevant bits (italics mine): "you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand."

 

[Li Shenron]

No. See the Sage Advice compendium, which is considered errata and RAW, specifically this question: "Do the first and third benefits of Crossbow Expert turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon?"

The answer, shortened to its relevant bits (italics mine): "you can fire it more than once if you have a feature like Extra Attack. You’re still limited, however, by the fact that the weapon has the ammunition property (PH, 146). The latter property requires you to have a bolt to fire from the hand crossbow, and the hand crossbow isn’t going to load itself (unless it’s magical or a gnomish invention). You need to load each bolt into the weapon, and doing so requires a hand."

What if the hand crossbow is the one-handed weapon you are attacking with?

You are only wielding the hand crossbow, so you do have a free hand all the time.

Taking the ammunition out is always part of attacking, but loading the crossbow is not. Crossbow Expert however handwaves that.

The remaining obstacle is that for the bonus attack, the hand crossbow must be already loaded.

So what if you take the bonus action first, and the crossbow was already previously loaded? Or is there some rule that says you must take the main action first?

 

[Vicaring]

What if the hand crossbow is the one-handed weapon you are attacking with?

You are only wielding the hand crossbow, so you do have a free hand all the time.

Taking the ammunition out is always part of attacking, but loading the crossbow is not. Crossbow Expert however handwaves that.

The remaining obstacle is that for the bonus attack, the hand crossbow must be already loaded.

So what if you take the bonus action first, and the crossbow was already previously loaded? Or is there some rule that says you must take the main action first?

Er, yeah. You're right, and that's perfectly admissible. You can fire 1 hand crossbow 4 times with that character, provided he always keeps 1 hand free.

My bad. Carry on. Ignore what I said before, when I was improperly assuming the use of 2 crossbows. Oops.

 

[Klaus]

Not sure where you got the bonus damage from, but the number of attacks seems right to me.

I'm guessing it's 1d6+Dex from hand crossbow, plus 1d6 to the target of a Hunter's Mark spell.

Assuming all attacks hit, and Dex is maxed at 20, the character in the OP deals an average of 33 (11 + 11 + 11) to the main target, and 8 to the second target. With an attack bonus maxing at +13 to hit (+5 Dex, +6 prof, +2 Archery).

 

[meshon]

The remaining obstacle is that for the bonus attack, the hand crossbow must be already loaded.

So what if you take the bonus action first, and the crossbow was already previously loaded? Or is there some rule that says you must take the main action first?

You have to use the Attack action to get the bonus action so I'd say that, if the attack was made with the hand crossbow, it's not going to be loaded.

 

[CapnZapp]

Not sure where you got the bonus damage from, but the number of attacks seems right to me.

Sorry, the d6 is Hunter's Mark.

 

[CapnZapp]

Certainly you can wait to see if your attack was a critical, because all these maneuvers starts with "when you hit", and in that case you already know if you have rolled a natural 20. You always make your decision to use these maneuvers after you hit, and nobody can tell you that you must...

As a tactic, I don't think it would be as useful as it sounds, because criticals just happen randomly, with no relation to whether this is a good or bad time to boost your damage. It is not always better to "spend" a superiority dice just because it's a critical, for example you might be fighting an easy target (or a badly wounded one), and the extra damage may be wasted.

Sure. Thank you.