D&D 5E How does the Reincarnation spell actually work in practice?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Say I'm a variant human Fighter with rolled stats 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12. As part of my racial package I take +1 to Str and +1 to Con and the Heavy Armor Master feat, plus Giant language and proficiency in Perception. I adventure for a long time and reach Fighter 1/Sorcerer 19, pumping all of my ASIs into Cha except the last one which I spend on Spell Sniper.

At this point I am a Fighter 1/Sorcerer 19 with Str 13 Dex 12 Con 13 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 20, Heavy Armor Master, Spell Sniper, and skills Athletics, Stealth, Perception, Animal Handling, and Investigation. (The latter two from my background.)

Now I die and am reincarnated into a Tiefling. At this point, a strict reading of the Reincarnate spell says that I lose my variant human benefits and gain tiefling benefits. So now I'm a Str 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 22 Tiefling with Spell Sniper and skills Athletics, Stealth, Animal Handling, and Investigation, plus proficiency in some Tiefling language, probably Infernal. If I don't remember which skill came from my variant human background I may have to choose randomly which skill I lose. The same thing could potentially apply to feats, if I don't know which feats came at first level (e.g. because the PC was created at higher-than-first level). Furthermore, I no longer qualify to multiclass out of Fighter, and I've broken the Cha 20 cap.

Also, what happens if I now get Reincarnated again back into a human? Can I pick new feats? Can I now be a Mobile Str 12 Dex 12 Con 13 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 21 human?

This all seems like a huge mess. As a DM, it seems like the simplest thing is to either ban Reincarnate entirely (and give druids Raise Dead to compensate) or go full old-school and make them roll up a new character who retains nothing but vague memories of his old life and (some fraction of) his old XP total. Roll new stats, choose a new class, establish new relationships/romances/friendships/enemies because you're no longer really the same character (although maybe you can get some memories back via powerful magic). Which of these two options I picked would depend upon how gonzo my players wanted to be in this campaign--some people like chaos.

DMs, how do you deal with reincarnating as a radically different race, and how do you personally deal with skills/weapon proficiencies/feats/ASIs/etc.? I'm curious.

 

[77IM]

It's not such a huge mess. Your character is perfectly playable. You would not be able to create such a character using the regular character creation and leveling rules -- but you're not, you're leveling up a character and then dying and coming back to life via the magic of reincarnate. This mystical journey to the nether-realms and back has a lasting effect on your character, giving you a combination of classes, ability scores, and possibly feats that you could not have otherwise gotten. Congratulations! And yes, if you reincarnate again, you can pick new feats; why not? Once again, your soul has been ripped from this mortal plane, and then pulled back in by the mighty power of divine magic; such an experience might leave your character altered in subtle ways.

 

[Henry]

I would say:
1) the CHA is capped at 20; there's no feature that says you get to break that rule, so, oh well, life ain't fair.
2) i'd be generous and say that you could re-spec your character, as long as they are legal when you're done. If you need to move some points around to keep his Fighter multiclass, then that's fine. If you decide to move 1 CHA point to STR because you're going to lose it anyway, then that's fine, too.

Past that, I wouldn't worry too much, it's still not game-breaking either way.

 

[77IM]

Actually the racial ability modifiers are not capped at 20 as far as I can tell, so if you raise your Cha to 20 and then get a racial bonus, it could be considered legal.

I say "could" because this points to a fundamental question of how you view the character-creation and leveling rules. If you view the character-creation and leveling rules as static constraints that must hold true at all times, then your Cha couldn't exceed 20 and the reincarnate spell makes zero sense and is a huge mess. If you view the character-creation and leveling rules as a procedure that must be followed over time regardless of the outcome, then your Cha can exceed 20 after reincarnate and that's just fine.

This could be a question of whether or not 5e conforms to Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Actually the racial ability modifiers are not capped at 20 as far as I can tell, so if you raise your Cha to 20 and then get a racial bonus, it could be considered legal.

Nope just checked. You can't unless a magic item comes into play.

 

[77IM]

Where does it say that? I read through the PHB chapter on Character Creation and I swear it wasn't in there (although it's entirely possible I missed it).

 

[pukunui]

I've had two PCs get reincarnated in one of my campaigns and a third in the other. All three times I've found it to be not all that messy, although I haven't followed the spell's rules exactly. I tend not to swap out known languages and proficiencies - anything that is learned rather than innate - so the reincarnated PCs end up as an amalgam of their previous race and their new one. It seems to work out OK so far.

That said, none of the reincarnated PCs have been variant humans. (I've had a dwarf become a half-orc, a different half-orc become a halfling, and an elf become a half-elf.) I think I'd be inclined to let a human that gets reincarnated as something else keep their free feat. I might take away the +2 racial ability score improvement to compensate, though.

As for bumping up an ability score beyond 20, the rules are pretty firm that this cannot be done without magic. I know reincarnation is a spell, but I think the spell description would explicitly say that racial bonuses could bump a score above 20 if that was the intention.

 

[dmnqwk]

5th edition is not about punishing people, so if you gained a +2 to your charisma from reincarnation that you cannot use, I would simply allow you to put it somewhere else, simply because there is no point in screwing someone over by random dice rolls.

So as shown by the Background's replacement effect (If you've got proficiency in a skill already, then you can pick any proficiency) I would extend this thinking to the reincarnation, and allow you to put the +2 Cha anywhere.

 

[Croesus]

Where does it say that? I read through the PHB chapter on Character Creation and I swear it wasn't in there (although it's entirely possible I missed it).

From Chapter 1:

Beyond 1st Level
As your character goes on adventures and overcomes challenges, he or she gains experience, represented by experience points. A character who reaches a specified experience point total advances in capability. This advancement is called gaining a level.

When your character gains a level, his or her class often grants additional features, as detailed in the class description. Some of these features allow you to increase your ability scores, either increasing two scores by 1 each or increasing one score by 2. You can’t increase an ability score above 20.

And from Chapter 7:

Ability Scores and Modifiers
Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability.

A score of 10 or 11 is the normal human average, but adventurers and many monsters are a cut above average in most abilities. A score of 18 is the highest that a person usually reaches. Adventurers can have scores as high as 20, and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30.

 

[Arial Black]

I think that 'spells' count as magic.