D&D 5E (2014) How does the Reincarnation spell actually work in practice?

[FormerlyHemlock]

While I can come up with all sorts of justifications for this not working, it's... kind of brilliant. I may have to steal this and do something with it.

Just for fun, set up a combo with Gentle Repose + Revivify instead of Raise Dead, just for the thematic resonance with hibernation chambers.

 

[Henry]

For added fun, unbeknownst to the players, the reincarnated bodies continue to live in this agony, believing that they've been duped and were never raised... or just furious that they did not cease to exist when the resurrections occurred. They set out for revenge on the employer/resurrected PCs as their dying goal, gaining corruption powers and becoming NPC villains with an admittedly short shelf life.

Dude, it's like one of those Star Trek episodes with the transporter accidents. Great idea!

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think that 'spells' count as magic.

Exactly.

Sorry to resurrect (er... reincarnate?) this thread, but this just came up in my game. The 5th level Hill Dwarf Sorcerer scored a Wild Magic "reincarnate in the next minute" roll, was gored and trampled to death by mammoth, and immediately popped back to life as a Dragonborn. It was an awesome story element in the moment and provides for some really interesting story points going forward.

Now, this did not push his CHA over 20 but if it did I would have allowed it because RAW. Contrary to some other posts here, the RAW limit of 20 only applies to leveling up. It is an extremely rare case where a non-Half-Elf (or Drow or Lightfoot Halfling or Dragonborn or Human or Tiefling) has a 20 CHA, dies outright, is brought back to life by a reincarnate spell, then rolls on the table and gets Half-Elf or Tiefling to get the +2 CHA racial bonus. A +6 CHA bonus won't break your game, but unnecessarily punishing a character for a misinterpretation of rules might.

 

[CapnZapp]

Now, this did not push his CHA over 20 but if it did I would have allowed it because RAW.

No the point of this thread is to make us go "...because RAF"

There is no RAW for every little contingency in 5th edition, whether we like it or not.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Sunseeker]

A level 20 character with 22 Cha isn't going to break the game. So yes I'd let you keep your 22 Cha. It is also worth noting that when building a good character, it is a good idea to know which stat bumps you get from what level, and the same is true for feats...just in case you lose the associated level somehow.

Other than that, I've rarely had to deal with Reincarnate on max-level characters. Actually in 5E I don't think anyone has used Reincarnate...or played a Druid in any of my games. In older editions it I didn't have a cap to worry about.

 

[flametitan]

I'm reading over the spell...

It doesn't specify that the stats are changed, per se. It says racial traits, which while it does include ASIs technically, but in a case like this, it gives leeway to say that "no, just because you were turned into a tiefling doesn't mean you're automatically smarter".

 

[Hussar]

Gamed for 35 years or so, and I've never once seen reincarnate used. Not once. Fun to know that it's not completely wasted space.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

DMs, how do you deal with reincarnating as a radically different race, and how do you personally deal with skills/weapon proficiencies/feats/ASIs/etc.? I'm curious.

First of all I would never run a game that allowed feats, and even if I did, I would never allow the obscenely overpowered variant human. That solves most of your dilemma right there.

If I did find myself in that situation, as the DM, the only reasonable way to rule it is ad hoc. Keep the languages, skills, and feats. Subtract out the old racial bonuses, add in the new ones, and if it goes over 20 then just cut it off. If the character somehow "loses" two points from their high stat, then that's the risk associated with the spell; it's their fault for having died, and the caster's fault for not casting a real resurrection spell.

 

[Severite]

First of all I would never run a game that allowed feats, and even if I did, I would never allow the obscenely overpowered variant human. That solves most of your dilemma right there.

If I did find myself in that situation, as the DM, the only reasonable way to rule it is ad hoc. Keep the languages, skills, and feats. Subtract out the old racial bonuses, add in the new ones, and if it goes over 20 then just cut it off. If the character somehow "loses" two points from their high stat, then that's the risk associated with the spell; it's their fault for having died, and the caster's fault for not casting a real resurrection spell.

I know it is a personal thing, and sure, life is not always fair, but if you are going to rule that they will lose it if the race has "less", then, as a game, it is only fait that they should gain the overage if their original race did not have the applicable racial bonus, in my opinion you should give the overage to them. But then, I am a great believer in consistent worlds. I acknowledge that it is obviously your game, and that you are absolutely welcome to ignore me. But, I would challenge you to compare it on a fairness level.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I know it is a personal thing, and sure, life is not always fair, but if you are going to rule that they will lose it if the race has "less", then, as a game, it is only fait that they should gain the overage if their original race did not have the applicable racial bonus, in my opinion you should give the overage to them. But then, I am a great believer in consistent worlds. I acknowledge that it is obviously your game, and that you are absolutely welcome to ignore me. But, I would challenge you to compare it on a fairness level.

Fairness shouldn't entail choosing a less-capable race when you start, in the hopes of later dying and reincarnating yourself to bypass racial limits. It wouldn't be fair to anyone else at the table, who managed to stay alive. It's not fair to other Halflings if the only ones capable of reaching Dexterity 22 are Halflings who weren't born as Halflings, and who have died. I mean, just as a baseline, in fairness to all players everywhere, no rule should ever reward death.

It's an ad hoc situation, so we're left looking at how the rules work in other situations, and most things are about what we would expect. One rule that's pretty much universal, though, is that you can't exceed 20 through any means available to the players - it takes extremely powerful magic items, or you have to be a level 20 barbarian. An ad hoc rule which failed to conform with that guideline would seem inappropriate to me.