D&D 3E/3.5 Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E

[MoonSong]

Not true - I would allow it

Yay, all I need is for you to move to the heart of the moon and start a group.

More to the point, I would have the same problem in 3e if I wanted to play a dragonborn. Does that make 3e a bad system. I don't think so, it just wouldn't support what I wanted.

They are non-core, but dragonborn originated in that edition. So not impossible, as is the case with Tiefling (they are in the monster manual and are stated for PC play).

You can play a healer in 5e. Sorry it is not fun for you, but aren't there 3e or PF games you can play if you don't like 5e? A game can't please everyone.

It is not that I don't like it, but well it doesn't support me as a player by practically anyway we look at it. Short of finding a DM who would enable me. (Like by adjusting things so it is fun to play a healbot or homebrew for me)

 

[Imaro]

The options don't exist at all. They would have to be discussed with the DM everytime. Familiars, unseen servants and stuff all exist in the edition, but they are off-limits for sorcerers. I could use a feat to gain the spear proficiency, but only that, and only for humans, and I'm not talking about a single character, but a whole category of them.

Well there's...

The ritual caster feat for a familiar and Unseen servant (both are rituals & you get 2).
The Weapon Master feat or multi-class for the spear proficiency.
The Sorcerer has Plane Shift as a spell on his list for hiding on other planes.
Use Int for a dump stat.
Pick utility spells from the sorcerers list
Take variant human... it's not monstrous looking and it gets you your two feats by 4th level.

Does that cover everything?

 

[MoonSong]

Well there's...

The ritual caster feat for a familiar and Unseen servant (both are rituals & you get 2).

It also ties it to a book, if you need a book to cast magic you aren't really a sorcerer anymore, I don't get to feel like magic incarnate if I have to carry a spellbook. (And don't you need high INT for it?) It is not more acceptable than just play a wizard. And if I felt comfortable playing one I wouldn't have this problem -but really I can't empathize or even get into the wizard mindset-.

The Sorcerer has Plane Shift as a spell on his list for hiding on other planes.

I meant Rope Trick. but shadow ponies and summons are also missing.

Use Int for a dump stat.

You need Int for ritual caster

Take variant human... it's not monstrous looking and it gets you your two feats by 4th level.

The bloodlines -like I don't blink ever, I turn blue, or I'm covered in scales- are the things making you inhuman looking. Besides, this only covers one character, how about if I want an elf, or an Aasimar? or a Gnome? or half elf? Remember this is not a single character, it is a type of character of which I like to play many.

 

[dave2008]

They are non-core, but dragonborn originated in that edition. So not impossible, as is the case with Tiefling (they are in the monster manual and are stated for PC play).

No, they were not in the first PHB. If I played 3e from the beginning, like you could be playing 5e now, I would be in the same boat.

They recently announced the first expansion is coming, so maybe you will get what your looking for?

Of course when exactly did dragonborn show up in 3e? I believe that was in Races of the Dragon (could have that name wrong) an optional supplement (not out of the box at all) in 2006. So you might have to wait 6 years before you get what you want. But that is OK, because that was the 3e timeline - right?

 

[pemerton]

A good DM needs to be a generally benign dictator (not a simple rules encyclopedia), and the focus of 5E is to bring that back to the table.

I don't feel that a GM needs to be a dictator at all.

S/he needs to be able to think of interesting situations - that's a type of creative/authorship skill, although translating them into game terms is also a technical skill ("rules encyclopedia"). And s/he needs to be able to adjudicate action resolution, which includes determining the consequences, especially when the PCs fail - that is a technical skill, but also requires creativity/authorship.

I don't really see where dictatorship comes into it.

In AD&D <snippage> The specific role of DPS didn't really exist.

What about fighters with percentile strength and bonus weapons (even moreso once UA introduces weapons spec)?

Also magical artillery?

Or is your point that these aren't carved out from other functions ("tanking", buffing, etc)?

 

[dave2008]

It is not that I don't like it, but well it doesn't support me as a player by practically anyway we look at it. Short of finding a DM who would enable me. (Like by adjusting things so it is fun to play a healbot or homebrew for me)

Do you care to expand on that? If not that is fine, but can't help you out with that description.

 

[Imaro]

It also ties it to a book, if you need a book to cast magic you aren't really a sorcerer anymore, I don't get to feel like magic incarnate if I have to carry a spellbook. (And don't you need high INT for it?) It is not more acceptable than just play a wizard. And if I felt comfortable playing one I wouldn't have this problem -but really I can't empathize or even get into the wizard mindset-.

Not sure how a sorcerer having a ritual book (which could technically be anything from a carved staff to an actual book) makes him no longer a sorcerer... since he's still, well a sorcerer with access to sorcerer spells and class abilities. And no you don't need a high intelligence for either of those spells as it doesn't come into play when casting them.

I meant Rope Trick. but shadow ponies and summons are also missing.

So is it about having the capability to do the thing you described (hide in other dimensions) or about specific spells? Because that wasn't what you stated originally and it now feels like a shifting of goalposts.

You need Int for ritual caster

With the two spells you want... what are you using Int for? In fact very few rituals use Int to determine anything about the spell.

The bloodlines -like I don't blink ever, I turn blue, or I'm covered in scales- are the things making you inhuman looking. Besides, this only covers one character, how about if I want an elf, or an Aasimar? or a Gnome? or half elf? Remember this is not a single character, it is a type of character of which I like to play many.

Are you talking about the Draconic bloodlines light sheen of scales... because that's the only reference I remember to appearance for a sorcerer... you know you could determine how light and what color they are... right? If not play a wild magic sorcerer...

As to other races, they can also take the feats mentioned above (though some start with weapon proficiencies or other things that might make some of the selections unnecessary) it just might take a little longer to get there. Though in all honesty outside of 3e sorcerer, what exactly is the "type" of character for this particular build?

I mean if your point is to prove there are certain characters one could conceive that couldn't be built in 5e then you're right but that's every edition. I thought you were looking for a way to realize the list of things you originally stated (without houserules from a DM) in 5e... which is what I showed you how to do.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

It also ties it to a book, if you need a book to cast magic you aren't really a sorcerer anymore, I don't get to feel like magic incarnate if I have to carry a spellbook. (And don't you need high INT for it?) It is not more acceptable than just play a wizard. And if I felt comfortable playing one I wouldn't have this problem -but really I can't empathize or even get into the wizard mindset-.


I meant Rope Trick. but shadow ponies and summons are also missing.


You need Int for ritual caster


The bloodlines -like I don't blink ever, I turn blue, or I'm covered in scales- are the things making you inhuman looking. Besides, this only covers one character, how about if I want an elf, or an Aasimar? or a Gnome? or half elf? Remember this is not a single character, it is a type of character of which I like to play many.

It wouldn't be called Sorcerer, but a Tome Warlock could theoretically get close to what you're describing. Full utility magic, rituals, and the spear.

 

[MoonSong]

No, they were not in the first PHB. If I played 3e from the beginning, like you could be playing 5e now, I would be in the same boat.

They recently announced the first expansion is coming, so maybe you will get what your looking for?

I'm not that confident of it.

Do you care to expand on that? If not that is fine, but can't help you out with that description.

PCs are too sturdy. They heal too fast. You are too superfluous yet still needed -so it feels like a burden and there is no spotlight for- The official module wreaks havoc with everything else.

Not sure how a sorcerer having a ritual book (which could technically be anything from a carved staff to an actual book) makes him no longer a sorcerer... since he's still, well a sorcerer with access to sorcerer spells and class abilities.

Needing an external source of power negates the feel of a sorcerer. It feels different. You don't feel special, born with magic when you need a book. It changes everything.

And no you don't need a high intelligence for either of those spells as it doesn't come into play when casting them.

but you need it to take the feat?

So is it about having the capability to do the thing you described (hide in other dimensions) or about specific spells? Because that wasn't what you stated originally and it now feels like a shifting of goalposts.

Because a high level spell really is going to be relevant always of course. Instead of a very flexible staple that comes online early?

With the two spells you want... what are you using Int for? In fact very few rituals use Int to determine anything about the spell.

To take the feat.

As to other races, they can also take the feats mentioned above (though some start with weapon proficiencies or other things that might make some of the selections unnecessary) it just might take a little longer to get there. Though in all honesty outside of 3e sorcerer, what exactly is the "type" of character for this particular build?

I mean if your point is to prove there are certain characters one could conceive that couldn't be built in 5e then you're right but that's every edition. I thought you were looking for a way to realize the list of things you originally stated in 5e... which is what I showed you how to do.

They are core-only characters that cannot be done with core only 5e -and wasn't inclusivity a goal? -, and not exactly a build. Just not wanting combat magic, and wanting a familiar and fighting with weapons. That's about it. That is not a build -and really you are doing a disservice to my preference by calling it a build.-, It is a preference for innate magic-wielding characters, someone for whom this is not an option or a choice that can be discarded or taken away -what that wonderful magic is or what are the character goals, race, background or specialty-. I find nothing wonderful out of burning everything on my path. Those missing spells are very fun out of combat spells that aren't an option anymore, and there is not much interesting stuff to take their place.

It wouldn't be called Sorcerer, but a Tome Warlock could theoretically get close to what you're describing. Full utility magic, rituals, and the spear.

Still a book, the book is the deal breaker re-skinned or not. (And I don't feel comfortable re-skinning)

 

[dave2008]

I'm not that confident of it.

Nor am I. Of course I would have to wait 6 years for the option, completely at the DMs discretion, to play a dragonborn in 3e. So I'm sure you can wait until 2020 or so right?

You never get everything at first. Some things just have to wait