D&D 5E Tabletop Rules and Guidelines

[ccs]

Read the rules. Write it down. Know how your character works. If you can't play your character, a new, simpler character will be provided for you so you can stop wasting my time.

So.... You're good with me flipping though essentially a hand written book, but not the real book.

 

[iserith]

I disagree but that's because I use social checks differently. They're not attacks. You're not using your Charisma and your charm and good looks to attack the other player's defenses against your charming words. The check is a measure of the quality of your words. Word-for-word role play requires a level of acting that most players simply don't have. Asking everyone to be an improv actor is unrealistic and your character's stats and the dice are there as an aide. So when you say "I try to convince him of the merits of sparing the bandit." and roll a 15, you've made a good argument in character even if out of character you can't quite name all the merits of sparing the bad guy, or convince the player.

Who decided there would be an ability check and what is the obligation of the player whose character is hearing the argument to spare the bandit?

 

[Sunseeker]

Who decided there would be an ability check and what is the obligation of the player whose character is hearing the argument to spare the bandit?

The player.

None.

 

[GX.Sigma]

[Disclaimer: As this thread is about DM praxis, everything I'm saying here is just the way I like to run things. It is based on my personal experiences and preferences, and is not meant to be universal GM advice. Also, all rules have exceptions (including this one). Also I have all the spell cards.]

I've been playing these games for 30+ years now, and I have never met anyone who could learn all the rules that apply to any character more complicated than, maybe, a 1E fighter. Heck, I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone learn all of those, if you include speed factors and the special cases in the number of attacks rules. I mean, sure, you can be basically familiar with them. But you're not going to be able to remember, with perfect reliability, all the edge cases and questions about phrasing that might apply. Especially not for spellcasters.

I don't care about the exact wording of the rules. I'm not running Jeremy Crawford's game; I'm running my game. The rules belong to the DM, and are just a small part of his toolbox. Whether we play "correctly" by the book is not important to me. The important thing is that there's a type V demon trying to mince you, and if you hesitate, you die.

So, okay, "write it down", but if we're writing it down, why not just use the one that was already written down, which is to say, the book?

The book has lots of dumb rules and content that isn't relevant for your character. It is inefficient to look everything up in a 300 page book when all you need is 1 page worth of information. If you can take 20 minutes of your own time to put together that page, it'll save us all a lot of time when we're actually playing the game. This is a pretty basic requirement of the game as far as I'm concerned. This is what the character sheet is for.

Edit: To clarify, there are three types of rules in the PHB. As a player, you need to have your character-specific "content" rules (e.g. race and class features, spells) available for immediate reference, and you should understand the "how to play" rules (e.g. saving throws, bonus actions, concentration). The players don't need to have a deep understanding of the "how to resolve actions" rules (e.g. jumping, grappling, speed factor, surprise); that's the DM's job.

but if I'm playing a caster, and someone asks a question about the boundary cases of one of my spells, I'm gonna look it up. I am not going to have 100% confidence that I remember the exact wording of how teleport familiarity is defined, or the exact restrictions imposed by a grapple, or whatever else.

If someone has a question, they ask the DM. The DM answers the question using any of the many tools at his disposal. Depending on the needs of the moment, that answer can be anything from a snap decision ("you can't do that, you're grappled"), to a die roll ("50% chance you're in the fireball"), to a rules reference ("teleport is intense, look it up"). The player does not need to open a rulebook unless the DM decides it's worth taking the time.

So.... You're good with me flipping though essentially a hand written book, but not the real book.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: If you feel you have to write out a whole book just to know how to play your character, maybe we're not on the same page. We are talking about D&D 5e here, right? Even the official character sheet with all the fixins is only 3 pages. Again, if you can't handle this, I have plenty of pregens with all the information you need.

 

[iserith]

The player.

None.

If there is no obligation on the part of the player to have his or her character act a particular way, I wonder then what the purpose of the check is. To give an indication of how persuasive Player A's character sounds even if Player B ultimately decides to have his or her character slay the bandit?

 

[S'mon]

This 'no books' thing seems utterly grotesque to me.

 

[delericho]

I only really have two, though they're fairly wide in impact:

1) We're here to game. If you'd rather be doing something else, that's fine; go somewhere else and do that. (There will always be distractions, and that's mostly fine, but keep the main thing the main thing.)

2) You can play in a way that makes the game more fun for everyone else at the table, or you can play in a way that makes the game less fun for everyone else. If you're in the first category, you're welcome here; if you're in the latter, the door is over there.

 

[Sadras]

Our table-rules are:

Nothing/None

If a query comes up and it appears it might take a long time to resolve, we decide to make a quick ruling on the matter until such time that we are better able decide. That doesn't mean we can all queries till after the session - Most are resolved fairly quickly.

 

[Jaelommiss]

If there is no obligation on the part of the player to have his or her character act a particular way, I wonder then what the purpose of the check is. To give an indication of how persuasive Player A's character sounds even if Player B ultimately decides to have his or her character slay the bandit?

As long as the player being acted upon is asking for the die roll I don't see any problem.

The DM could determine that there is a chance that Player A could convince an NPC not to slay the prisoner and that a persuasion check could resolve that uncertainty.
Likewise, Player B could believe that PC A could convince PC B not to slay the prisoner and ask for a persuasion check to resolve that uncertainty. There is nothing in the rules preventing a player from using the dice to resolve uncertainty in their character's response in the exact same way that a DM does for all NPCs.

As an example from one of my recent games, my character had asked another character to compile some information into a condensed and organized format. If he did well enough, my character was going to grant him access to a book he was looking for. I asked for an Intelligence check from him to determine the quality of his work and how impressed my character would be. He rolled well enough and got the book. Had he rolled worse I would have asked him to complete some other task for me before getting the book. No one saw any problem with it and the game continued.


I agree that a player trying to force their die result onto another player would be a problem.

 

[delericho]

This 'no books' thing seems utterly grotesque to me.

Yeah, it's an odd one. Whenever a PC in my game casts a spell, unless it's a very common one, I always want to check the text of the spell rules - a consequence of having a player who selectively 'forgot' all the weaknesses and limitations of his spells.

That being the case, a player who takes the time to look up the spell he wants to cast prior to his turn would be doing me a real favour - one less delay in the combat. (Of course, spell cards are very good here, too... provided they copy the text verbatim and don't just summarise.)