D&D 5E ¿Gold for XP in meat-grinder dungeon?

[not-so-newguy]

¿Gold for XP in meat-grinder dungeon?

I'm playing around with 5E's grittier options. The set up for the adventure is basic: A village with a dungeon nearby and I will be using a random dungeon generator (Donjon's generator looks good, open to suggestions on this). It's intended to be played within 2-3 sessions (approx 6-8 hours). It's something I would run when nobody else wants to DM at my FLGS. So if the adventure sucks, then we've only wasted a couple nights of play.

Something that I want use is "Gold for xp," but a Google search does not reveal much: There are folks inquiring about how to do it, but no clear cut answer.

• Has anybody tried this beyond theory-crafting? Did it change anything at the table?

• I'm sure someone out there has touted the Pros/Cons of the "Gold for xp" system in 5e, please share. I'd like to read it.

• Please tout your own opinion on the pros/cons on the "Gold for xp" system.

Here is a tentative list of 5e options that I want to use:
[Sblock]
Character creation

• Roll 4d6, drop lowest, in order
• Choose race and Class from PHB only (no variant human)
• Max Hp at 1st level, roll for hp when you gain a level (minimum +1 hp)
• Ability Check by Class and Background(DMG 263)
• Use starting gear options by Class and Background. Gear may be swapped with DM's approval.

Healing

• Slow Natural Healing. (Use HD during a long rest only. Regain HD by returning to town.)
• Players receive a lingering injury when dropped to 0 hp (DMG 272)

Encumbrance (we ignore "Carry Capacity" completely. I suspect that using gold for xp would make this detail more important)

• Carry capacity in pounds = strength score x 15

Spell casters can use a Focus, but caster needs the specific component if the spell has a gp cost. (I believe this is RAW, but we ignore this rule and just deduct the appropriate amount of gold)

For example, the find familiar spell requires "10gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs". The spellcaster must have those specific items on his/her person when the spell is cast (components are consumed unless otherwise stated). Side note: There will be a "spell components" shop in town.
[/Sblock]

 

[Nagol]

The biggest pro is the same as the con: gold for xp drives different behaviour from the players. It 's a big pro if the new behaviour is preferable and a con in the reverse case.

 

[Yaarel]

Just ignore the gp requirement. It was mistake to use gp as a balancing mechanism because gp is too setting specific. The official spells dont use this gp requirement consistently, so it fails as a balancing mechanism anyway. Just ignore it completely.

The only point of a gp requirement is to prevent a player who spams the spell. If a spell has a gp requirement it is a notice to make sure that it doesnt get abused. But a DM can make sure of that without a gp requirement.

What constitutes ‘abuse’ might depend on the setting. Just make sure the DM and the player are on the same page with regard to how to use the spell, and everything is fine.

 

[not-so-newguy]

Looking through some old threads on the subject (circa 2014-2015) there was a consensus on how to reduce the monster's XP, but conflicting opinions on Gold for XP.

Basically, it boiled down to this:
Monster = XP as found in MM divided by 10
1 Gold = 1 XP or 5 Gold = 1 XP

There were also suggestions to change experience point requirement for each level, but that seems like a more complicated solution.

 

[Shiroiken]

Since you already have the adventure figured out, you know how much treasure there is to be found. I'd recommend you half monster XP, add some XP for specific challenges (such as traps and possibly a quest), then provide 1 XP per 10/25/50/100 gp recovered (depending on how much treasure you have). I'd suggest the total XP be around the same as the total monster xp normally, so that smart play (avoiding monsters) is rewarded without giving out too much XP.

 

[not-so-newguy]

Just ignore the gp requirement. It was mistake to use gp as a balancing mechanism because gp is too setting specific. The official spells dont use this gp requirement consistently, so it fails as a balancing mechanism anyway. Just ignore it completely.

The only point of a gp requirement is to prevent a player who spams the spell. If a spell has a gp requirement it is a notice to make sure that it doesnt get abused. But a DM can make sure of that without a gp requirement.

What constitutes ‘abuse’ might depend on the setting. Just make sure the DM and the player are on the same page with regard to how to use the spell, and everything is fine.

Huh. This is the first time I've heard of this. What's you say makes sense and would make spellcasting a little less complicated. By rolling stats in order, some player(s) will be forced to play spell casters for the first time.

BTW, all of these changes will be communicated to potential players. There may be deal-breakers for some people.

 

[the_redbeard]

I use experience for gold, but my campaign is currently on hiatus (couldn't type with a broken arm) and just getting started again. I found 1gp=1exp a little slow at the beginning, so I've been tempted to allow characters to "double dip" with spending gp on carousing or other role play aims (ie, not equipment or faction advancement). I can't say how that works in play just yet.

We also use quest/exploration exp, but don't reward exp for monsters. Wandering monsters are a threat, and the time you spend in danger is a resource.

Here's an analysis of 1gp for 1 exp over 20 levels: Blog of Holding

I for one disagree with removing the gp cost of certain spells. Setting specific? Every price list in the book (including what is and isn't considered to be purchasable, whether potions of healing or magical items) is a setting specific assumption.

Also in my campaign, since acquiring treasure is more important, I'm tracking encumbrance. But to do that, I'm using a simplified version hosted here on ENworld that is easy enough to actually follow. It works, though we have one person whose role is quartermaster.

As we're starting up again after our hiatus, I've geared up to do something more like this:Arts and Crafts the Morbidly Encumbered Edition. We haven't played a session yet, but the players have converted their characters and like the tactile depiction of their character sheets.

Other house rules I'm using:
1. By the book healing, but taking a rest and spending hit dice requires consumption of food and water or healing kits. Again, encumbrance and trade-offs.
2. Instead of lingering wounds and death saves, you're not automatically unconscious at 0 hitpoints, but each hit at 0 hps takes a roll on the "Death and Dismemberment Table". One party has had one death, one player is fine with his character being blind in one eye, but they're on quest to help a local bishop for healing his broken leg. The other party hasn't hit 0 hitpoints yet; they actually reached 2nd level by shenanigans without combat.

 

[CapnZapp]

Something that I want use is "Gold for xp," but a Google search does not reveal much: There are folks inquiring about how to do it, but no clear cut answer.

Here you go

http://blogofholding.com/?p=6760

In short:

* Whenever a monster is in the top half of a tier (challenge rating 3-4, 8-10, 14-16) double the monetary treasure of its treasure hoard
* Don't use tier-four treasure hoards; instead keep to double-money tier three treasure hoards for CR 17 on up.

This will allow you have a campaign where the heroes cash in gold to gain xp on a 1:1 ratio.

 

[not-so-newguy]

[MENTION=22644]the_redbeard[/MENTION] I really like the death and dismemberment table, reminds me of the critical failure table in the old Middle Earth Role-playing game. Though I think I will stick to the DMG for now. It's a little more cut-and-dry. That may change if I run this a couple of times.


Heh, I tried to download the "slot system" encumbrance sheet and found out I already downloaded it. Tracking encumbrance will be tough for some players, potentially a deal-breaker. Anything that makes it easier is a big help (please note, I lack any skill with arts and crafts. Just wanted to say, those are nifty encumbrance sheets!


Thanks for the Bag of Holding link! And thanks to [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] for the repeat!


Below is a tentative list of house rules for xp. Second list deals with general content of the adventure. Just to remind folks, I'm experimenting with the 5e options to provide an adventure that will last 2-3 sessions. Potential players will have full knowledge of all house rules beforehand.

The one question I'm trying to answer is sources of XP other than gold. I want to keep the list limited to possible XP sources found in a dungeon (created by Donjon Random dungeon generator).


Experience Points

• Killing monsters yields no experience points
• Collecting loot does
• 1 gp of loot = 1 experience point
• Other sources of xp: Traps, completing a level...?
• Loot can only be converted into XP by securing it at the Green Griffin Inn (they have a vault) or spending it in town.
• Actual value of loot will count towards xp, not the price at which it is sold.
• Loot will be distributed fairly. A "fair" portion is decided by the group. Prolonged money arguments will be interrupted by wandering monsters. Other arguments are subject to the typical time/noise check (yet to be determined).
• No stealing or withholding.

General game content.

• Meta game to your heart's content! It's encouraged (see below). Just don't use a book or device.
• The basic premise is that you, the player, have been transported from our FLGS to another plane of existance by Emirikol the Chaotic. The player will inhabit the body of an avatar, your character. If you die; the player will be reincarnated into another avatar, your next character, back at the Green Griffin Inn in town.
• There will be a town with full amenities (Inn, Chapel, Components Shop, etc), 4 hours of wilderness (single check), and dungeon. That's it.
• I will be using Donjon Random Dungeon Generator
• Inspired by a mishmash of B/X Misadventures in randomly generated dungeons, the audiobook Critical Failures (very low brow), and some ideas that I vaguely remember about Gonzo on a thread I read years ago that I liked.
• A great read: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?676099-B-X-Misadventures-in-randomly-generated-dungeons

 

[the_redbeard]

[MENTION=22644]
Heh, I tried to download the "slot system" encumbrance sheet and found out I already downloaded it. Tracking encumbrance will be tough for some players, potentially a deal-breaker. Anything that makes it easier is a big help (please note, I lack any skill with arts and crafts. Just wanted to say, those are nifty encumbrance sheets!

I've been using slot-based encumbrance for some time (jeez, years!) Our usual practice (and in most groups I've found), there's one person that keeps a list of treasure. So, how do you meld these two systems? Put encumbrance on the group treasure sheet. Each player is responsible for their equipment on their encumbrance sheet, and they tell the treasure keeper (we call them the 'quartermaster' and give them an experience bump of a percentage of the exp for the session) how many slots they have free before they gain an encumbrance level. The quartermaster records the loot on the column of the character that will actually be holding it - including NPC porters. If a character dies and the body is left behind, that loot is lost. We always know how loaded everyone is and what their movement rates will be.

Even simplifying the accounting with slots, it is still worth it to simplify the process.

Below is a tentative list of house rules for xp. Second list deals with general content of the adventure. Just to remind folks, I'm experimenting with the 5e options to provide an adventure that will last 2-3 sessions. Potential players will have full knowledge of all house rules beforehand.

The one question I'm trying to answer is sources of XP other than gold. I want to keep the list limited to possible XP sources found in a dungeon (created by Donjon Random dungeon generator).

Eh, I'd put traps on the same level as monsters: as obstacles not goals. But then I strive for goal-directed play, giving exp for accomplishing goals (which might be difficult in a purely randomized dungeon) or exploration (like finding new levels, new exits, etc.)