D&D 5E Can someone clarify the mechanics of surprise for me?

[jgsugden]

BOO.

Suprised?

 

[One_Shots]

How so?

In terms of order and initiative.

A good example is one situation I had where a character with the Alert feat got to act before someone else who initiated the combat. The PC's were talking to an enemy and one of their NPC allies had a high enough stealth while invisible that none of them knew he was there. He attacked the enemy from hiding, starting combat and therefore initiative, but the PC with Alert acted first and attacked the enemy before the NPC could even complete their attack that started​ the combat.

That's some seriously time-warping reflexes right there.

 

[Flamestrike]

In terms of order and initiative.

A good example is one situation I had where a character with the Alert feat got to act before someone else who initiated the combat. The PC's were talking to an enemy and one of their NPC allies had a high enough stealth while invisible that none of them knew he was there. He attacked the enemy from hiding, starting combat and therefore initiative, but the PC with Alert acted first and attacked the enemy before the NPC could even complete their attack that started​ the combat.

That's some seriously time-warping reflexes right there.

He's alert. Very alert.

Seriously though, everyone should be alert. The world needs more lerts.

 

[Horwath]

In terms of order and initiative.

A good example is one situation I had where a character with the Alert feat got to act before someone else who initiated the combat. The PC's were talking to an enemy and one of their NPC allies had a high enough stealth while invisible that none of them knew he was there. He attacked the enemy from hiding, starting combat and therefore initiative, but the PC with Alert acted first and attacked the enemy before the NPC could even complete their attack that started​ the combat.





That's some seriously time-warping reflexes right there.

Add assassin subclass to the alert feat character and he can even attack him with advantage and sneak attack him

btw, it's not time warping, just very fast reflexes.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I figure the Alert feat represents a near-superhuman "spidey-sense". You can pick up small signs that someone is going to attack almost before they know it themselves.

Sure it's not always realistic, but neither is a lot of other things D&D characters can do, that doesn't even involve magic, so there's no real problem.

 

[BoldItalic]

BOO.

Suprised?

Dunno. I get 16 Passive Perception. What was your Stealth roll?

 

[Rya.Reisender]

According to RAW, passive perception applies even to creatures that are not actively looking for threats. Some sections in the starter set also indicate that this is true.

 

[Plaguescarred]

It only starts getting complicated with the Alert feat. That thing can create some serious weirdness.

It's not the inability to be surprised via Alert feat, Weapon of Warning, Feral Instinct Foresight etc.. that can create some serious weirdness but initiating action before initiative is rolled and the first turn taken as it still create weirdness without surprise nullifiers.

 

[Arial Black]

It's not the inability to be surprised via Alert feat, Weapon of Warning, Feral Instinct Foresight etc.. that can create some serious weirdness but initiating action before initiative is rolled and the first turn taken as it still create weirdness without surprise nullifiers.

If you're immune to surprise (Alert feat, Weapon of Warning, class features) then this means you do not suffer the effects of surprise (cannot use Reactions until after first turn, cannot move or act on first turn) but it does not mean that you are aware of the threat in the same way as if your Perception had beaten their Stealth.

Rolling a higher initiative, not seeing the baddy because your Perception sucks but not being surprised because Weapon of Warning, you can find your turn coming up before you know which guy is the bad guy, or before the arrow streaks out of the trees, giving away the assassin's position.

So what's the point of going first then?

You 'get a bad feeling about this'. You can yell for people to take cover. You can take the Dodge action and move to cover. You can equip your shield and move next to the princess so that you can use your fighting style to impose disadvantage on the first attack against her, as well as giving her some cover.

You can cast globe of invulnerability, barkskin, dimension door, bless, armour of agathys, see invisibility, faerie fire.

You can do some 'reconnaissance by fireball'; just cast fireball at a suspicious stand of trees and see what pops out.

But you might not be able to attack the baddy directly, because you don't know where he is or maybe who he is.

So, you could ready an action to attack/cast a spell at the assassin as soon as he reveals himself.

What you can't do is attack a baddy that you don't know about. Immunity to surprise =/= a successful Perception check versus the baddy's Stealth.

 

[Plaguescarred]

If you're immune to surprise (Alert feat, Weapon of Warning, class features) then this means you do not suffer the effects of surprise (cannot use Reactions until after first turn, cannot move or act on first turn) but it does not mean that you are aware of the threat in the same way as if your Perception had beaten their Stealth.

Rolling a higher initiative, not seeing the baddy because your Perception sucks but not being surprised because Weapon of Warning, you can find your turn coming up before you know which guy is the bad guy, or before the arrow streaks out of the trees, giving away the assassin's position.

So what's the point of going first then?

You 'get a bad feeling about this'. You can yell for people to take cover. You can take the Dodge action and move to cover. You can equip your shield and move next to the princess so that you can use your fighting style to impose disadvantage on the first attack against her, as well as giving her some cover.

You can cast globe of invulnerability, barkskin, dimension door, bless, armour of agathys, see invisibility, faerie fire.

You can do some 'reconnaissance by fireball'; just cast fireball at a suspicious stand of trees and see what pops out.

But you might not be able to attack the baddy directly, because you don't know where he is or maybe who he is.

So, you could ready an action to attack/cast a spell at the assassin as soon as he reveals himself.

What you can't do is attack a baddy that you don't know about. Immunity to surprise =/= a successful Perception check versus the baddy's Stealth.

Great post i agree and doesn't think this is serious weirdness. Certainly unusual compared to how things normally go down, but then again it's how these game elements are suppsoed to operate.

If you're aware of a threat but doesn't know where it is, you should still be able to attack it though. You'll have to attack (or cast an area spell) a location where you think the threat.