I mean like technically and mechanically speaking. What if I'm an evil level 2 Paladin, and I want to take the Oath of the Crown because I feel like I could abuse it and/or gain power and profit from doing so. Is this possible, or restricted due to my "god" not allowing it? Could the Paladin break it's tenets when nobody is around to see and get away with it?
D&D 5E How exactly does a Paladin break it's Oath?
- Thread starter CTurbo
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AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
Ask your DM, and if you are the DM, ask your player interested in role-playing a paladin what they would find to be an entertaining answer.
Generally, though, anything will break if you hit it hard enough.
Generally, though, anything will break if you hit it hard enough.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Well, typically you pick an alignment within one step of your god. IE: Pelor doesn't have evil paladins. Gods of chaos and destruction tend to not be overly fond of people who support the rule of law and the growth of stable civilization. But in 5E it's largely thematic unless your DM is enforcing more specific rules.
But you're asking about how you break your oath, okay, and you're an Oath of the Crown paladin, so good or evil, you support law, order and civilization. You probably follow a King of some kind. So if your oath is to serve the causes of an evil king you are probably doing stuff like killing his enemies, scaring people in submission, all to preserve the law, order and civilization of your land as your King sees it.
So to break you oath you would probably have to do chaotic, unlawful things, like killing loyal supporters of the King when the King has not ordered it, and they have violated now laws. You could also be assisting rebel groups, as those people would most likely be attempting to overthrow the King you pledged your loyalty to.
Keep in mind: breaking your oath doesn't make you an oathbreaker paladin. It is not a shortcut into the class out of the DMG; which was intended to be for good paladins who have turned evil, not evil paladins who want to be more evil.
But you're asking about how you break your oath, okay, and you're an Oath of the Crown paladin, so good or evil, you support law, order and civilization. You probably follow a King of some kind. So if your oath is to serve the causes of an evil king you are probably doing stuff like killing his enemies, scaring people in submission, all to preserve the law, order and civilization of your land as your King sees it.
So to break you oath you would probably have to do chaotic, unlawful things, like killing loyal supporters of the King when the King has not ordered it, and they have violated now laws. You could also be assisting rebel groups, as those people would most likely be attempting to overthrow the King you pledged your loyalty to.
Keep in mind: breaking your oath doesn't make you an oathbreaker paladin. It is not a shortcut into the class out of the DMG; which was intended to be for good paladins who have turned evil, not evil paladins who want to be more evil.
MechaTarrasque
Hero
This is a "rulings not rules" area. Technically by RAW (generic D&D) you don't have to swear the oath to a god (although I think you do in the FR, but don't quote me on that, I may be mistaken).
Part of it is figuring out who or what the oath is sworn to, how common paladins are, who can catch the paladin violating the oath, and what the penalties are. The DM and the paladin player(s) should work these things out. Also, if you are planning on having oath breaker paladins, you should have a scenario in mind for how a paladin gains the subclass--is it automatic, does some fiend/undead come along and "let's make a deal", or is it a curse of some kind (pre-death knight)? This should be more the DM's decision than the player(s)' unless you in an all evil game.
I am more of a "send an angel to punish the misbehaving paladin" type then the "paladin falls" type of DM, but if a player really wanted his/her paladin to fall, I could work with that.
Part of it is figuring out who or what the oath is sworn to, how common paladins are, who can catch the paladin violating the oath, and what the penalties are. The DM and the paladin player(s) should work these things out. Also, if you are planning on having oath breaker paladins, you should have a scenario in mind for how a paladin gains the subclass--is it automatic, does some fiend/undead come along and "let's make a deal", or is it a curse of some kind (pre-death knight)? This should be more the DM's decision than the player(s)' unless you in an all evil game.
I am more of a "send an angel to punish the misbehaving paladin" type then the "paladin falls" type of DM, but if a player really wanted his/her paladin to fall, I could work with that.
bedir than
Full Moon Storyteller
Remember, the power now comes from a Paladin's adherence to their Oath, not from a God. How would a Paladin maintain their powers from the Oath of the Crown if they don't believe in the influence of the Crown? They literally couldn't.
On page 86 of the PHB it states
"A paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous paladin is fallible. Sometimes the right path proves too demanding, sometimes a situation calls for the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the heat of emotion causes a paladin to transgress his or her oath. A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. The paladin might spend an all night vigil in prayer as a sign of penitence, or undertake a fast or similar act of self-denial. After a rite o f confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh. If a paladin willfully violates his or her oath and shows no sign of repentance, the consequences can be more serious. At the DM's discretion, an impenitent paladin might beforced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option that appears in the Dungeon Master's Guide."
My understanding of this is that a paladin wouldn't be a paladin without his sacred oath. It would be like a random person pretending to be a wizard. They can pretend all they want, but that won't give them the magical power of a real wizard. A person can pretend to be a paladin bound to oath, but that wouldn't make them a paladin.
"A paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous paladin is fallible. Sometimes the right path proves too demanding, sometimes a situation calls for the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the heat of emotion causes a paladin to transgress his or her oath. A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. The paladin might spend an all night vigil in prayer as a sign of penitence, or undertake a fast or similar act of self-denial. After a rite o f confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh. If a paladin willfully violates his or her oath and shows no sign of repentance, the consequences can be more serious. At the DM's discretion, an impenitent paladin might beforced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option that appears in the Dungeon Master's Guide."
My understanding of this is that a paladin wouldn't be a paladin without his sacred oath. It would be like a random person pretending to be a wizard. They can pretend all they want, but that won't give them the magical power of a real wizard. A person can pretend to be a paladin bound to oath, but that wouldn't make them a paladin.
So asking the DMs out there, would you allow a lawful evil Paladin to take an Oath or the Crown, Devotion, or Ancients? He'll behave accordingly in company at all times, but will probably "do evil things" in times he thinks he could get away with it. Obviously this character would have no qualms with lying, cheating, stealing, and killing if he thought he could get away with it. It would almost be like he was leading a double life. I just don't know if it would "work" like with the Pally powers and whatnot. I like for things to make a little of bit of sense and at least try to stay logical in decisions.
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