D&D 5E (2014) Why do Alchemists suck?

[Morrus]

Less errata than the D&D Player's Handbook, though!

Yeah, things get errated from time to time. It's not ideal, but it's better that they do than that they don't. Especially when its just a PDF -- not like you have to buy a new hardcover!

SaveSave​

 

[GM Lent]

EDIT

Way to misremember the class, Ath-kethin.

I stand by my criticism of the Wizard subclass system. It is, however, not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Carry on.

 

[Eubani]

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that the Evoker is designed for damage where as the Alchemist sacrifices some for utility.

 

[Werebat]

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that the Evoker is designed for damage where as the Alchemist sacrifices some for utility.

It sacrifices A LOT of damage -- for what utility?

The tradeoff seemed pretty unimpressive. Especially when you consider the utility that is sacrificed in losing so many wizard spells.

 

[Eubani]

It sacrifices A LOT of damage -- for what utility?

The tradeoff seemed pretty unimpressive. Especially when you consider the utility that is sacrificed in losing so many wizard spells.

Maybe if you provided figures and examples as well as some suggestions to fix your perceived problem then we can start some real and quality discussion. As it is you have only made dramatic and impolite statements.

So you are comparing it against the Evoker well provide some damage figures at various levels along with your attached assumptions and maybe compare some of the other subclasses against similar class/subclass combinations and see what comes up. Doing this provides proof of your thoughts and may lead to change or at least consensus and ideas for fixes, just saying it sux will largely just have you being ignored or treated with contempt. I am assuming you want to like the class but have found it underwhelming and underperforming comparately. Unfortunately your OP will not lead to a result you may believe is worthwhile. So assuming you are not trolling and have an honest issue can you please re present your case in a manner more conductive to reasoned discussion.

 

[Werebat]

So assuming you are not trolling and have an honest issue can you please re present your case in a manner more conductive to reasoned discussion.

Eh, I'm usually doing a little of both. Often, it's the best way to actually learn something. Not this time, evidently.

In addition, the campaign in question folded this weekend, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Zardnaar]

I agree with the OPs comment.

The class is basically so bad it you can't salvage it. Its a half caster like the Ranger and Paladin but it is useless in normal combat, has a d8 hit dice (but can't skirmish or cast spells that good) and its key ability is triggered off sacrificing spell slots and even then is not that good anyway. The Pathfinder Alchemist runs rings around it. you could give it level 6-9 spell slots with no spell list and it would still be bad.

This is actually a common problem with the EN5ider classes, all of them are mostly terrible with the possible exceptions of 1 noble archetype and the Feywalker. The noble has also been laid out badly but at least it kind of functions at doing something different and can do it OK to do it well. The Morph and Diabolist also look quite bad.

Sorry I tried to be polite Morrus, EN5ider has done a great job with archetypes for example but the classes are very niche and often out right bad to boot.

 

[Eubani]

As I said if people can back these claims up with figures and explanation to compare with similar classes that already exist then maybe we may get some errata or at least discuss some fixes to use in home games.

 

[Zardnaar]

As I said if people can back these claims up with figures and explanation to compare with similar classes that already exist then maybe we may get some errata or at least discuss some fixes to use in home games.

The Alchemist problem is that it is no good in any of the traditional rolls, is no good in any of the pillars, can't deal much damage, and its not very good in any hybrid role. Its trying to be some sort of artillery but it is worse than the current options.

You compare the clas to a invoker or light cleric it comes up short.

You compare it to a blasting build warlock or lore bard it comes up short.

How about a invoker 11/Eldritch Knight 9. Still worse than that.

Fighter 10/Any wizard 10 might even be worse than that.

OK combat is not everything fair enough but it has no class features helping out the other pillars like say the Rogue, Ranger or Bard. Its a half caster with a meh spell list that does not enhance something like combat like the Ranger/Paladin or even Blade locks list does. Its a half caster trying to function as artillery and failing even that.

 

[Eubani]

The Alchemist problem is that it is no good in any of the traditional rolls, is no good in any of the pillars, can't deal much damage, and its not very good in any hybrid role.

How does what it has fall short? What is it missing? How much damage does it fall short?