D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

[Hussar]

No weaker than assuming it's okay to change because those who want it must access to it...

Sorry, but, in the days of Internet, that's an incredibly weak argument. The odds that you can't find the old lore somewhere on the net is pretty unlikely.

But, your argument seems to be that someone who cares enough about setting canon to actively oppose changes has lost/sold/gotten rid of his or her books at some point in the past, and therefore new books should not change canon in order to appease that person. Is that correct?

If that's correct, I'm really, really glad that D&D is in the hands of people who actually want to run a successful business. Talk about appealing to a niche.

 

[Shasarak]

This baffles me. You are completely okay with replacing Gold Elves with 5e elves, which are just as different as Eladrin. The only issue here is you can't seem to get around the noun. It's mind boggling. If Eladrin were bad because they were different from 3e Gold Elves, then why aren't 5e Elves also equally bad?

I dont know what to tell you. To me 5e Elves are a lot closer to the original Fighter/Magic-User Elves that we have had for year then Eladrin are. Obviously not exactly the same because the 5e Multi-Class system is pants but at least a nod to the traditional Elves.

Maybe you could explain why a dimensional hopping Eladrin is better then the 5e Elf?

 

[Imaro]

Sorry, but, in the days of Internet, that's an incredibly weak argument. The odds that you can't find the old lore somewhere on the net is pretty unlikely.

But, your argument seems to be that someone who cares enough about setting canon to actively oppose changes has lost/sold/gotten rid of his or her books at some point in the past, and therefore new books should not change canon in order to appease that person. Is that correct?t

If that's correct, I'm really, really glad that D&D is in the hands of people who actually want to run a successful business. Talk about appealing to a niche.

I'm not arguing that this is why new books shouldn't change canon...It was simply a counterpoint to @pemerton's assumption of the lore being readily available to anyone who preferred it.

EDIT: Now granted this is becoming less of a problem and once they have the Planescape stuff up for PoD I'll be one of the first to hand over my money to restock on all those books I loved (but didn't really care for properly) as a child... but the secondary market on ebay for Planescape was just to ridiculous for me to entertain the notion of buying back my entire collection.

 

[pemerton]

Could be a reason why 4e Encounters did not last for very long. Hard to say if it would have saved it though.

Suppose that's true. It's still only a commercial reason for WotC not to change canon. It's not a reason for any particular RPGer to care about canon.

 

[pemerton]

No weaker than assuming it's okay to change because those who want it must have access to it...

The number of people who have never heard of Planescape yet wish that 4e tielfings were the same as PS ones is (I think) pretty small.

EDIT: Also what [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] said.

 

[Imaro]

The number of people who have never heard of Planescape yet wish that 4e tielfings were the same as PS ones is (I think) pretty small.

EDIT: Also what @Hussar said.

What does them having heard of them have to do with the availability of the actual material?

 

[Hussar]

I dont know what to tell you. To me 5e Elves are a lot closer to the original Fighter/Magic-User Elves that we have had for year then Eladrin are. Obviously not exactly the same because the 5e Multi-Class system is pants but at least a nod to the traditional Elves.

Maybe you could explain why a dimensional hopping Eladrin is better then the 5e Elf?

Not saying it's better.

Just not seeing the difference. A 25 foot teleport is no more setting changing than unlimited fire bolts. Or whatever cantrip you want to add.

Since Gold Elves aren't actually core high elves but actually a setting specific race with setting specific canon, why is an Eladrin an issue but 5e elves aren't?

I mean you always had to adapt to setting specific material and lore. So ignoring the phb lore has always been acceptable.

 

[pemerton]

I dont know what to tell you. To me 5e Elves are a lot closer to the original Fighter/Magic-User Elves that we have had for year then Eladrin are. Obviously not exactly the same because the 5e Multi-Class system is pants but at least a nod to the traditional Elves.

Maybe you could explain why a dimensional hopping Eladrin is better then the 5e Elf?

Here are quick summaries of AD&D 1st ed, 4e and 5e High Elves:

AD&D
* +1 DEX (max 19), -1 CON
* 1600 year life expectancy
* Average height 5' for men, 4'4" for women
* Average weight 100 lb for men, 80 lb for women
* 60' infravision
* Speak Elvish, Gnome, Halfling, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Orcish, Gnoll, and Common
* 90% resistance to sleep and charm spells
* +1 to hit with long and short bows, and long and short swords
* Bonus chance to notice concealed doors and find concealed and secret doors
* Chance to surprise if unarmoured and not with anyone other than elves and halflings

4e
* +2 DEX, +2 INT
* Fey origin, live for over 300 years, and even at the end suffer few of the infirmities of old age
* Average height 5´5˝–6´1˝
* Average weight 130–180 lb.
* See normally in dim light
* Speak Elvish, Common
* Bonus to recovery from charm effects (the Sleep spell is a charm effect)
* 'Trance' rather than sleep (4 hr = 6 hr sleep)
* Longsword proficiency
* Gain a bonus skill, and gain bonuses to Arcana and History checks
* Teleport up to 25' (once used, short rest to recover)

5e
* +2 DEX, +1 INT
* 750 year life expectancy
* Tend to CG
* Height ranges from <5' to > 6' tall, slender build
* See 60' in dim light, see poorly for 60' in darkness
* Speak Common, Elvish, and one additional language
* Bonus to charm saves, immune to sleep magic
* 'Trance' rather than sleep (4 hr = 8 hr sleep)
* Proficient with longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow
* Bonus to Perception checks
* Use one wizard cantrip (at will)​

Neither 4e nor 5e keeps the racial ability to surprise by moving silently. 4e drops the Perception bonus (though it can be regained by taking Perception as a bonus skill), and has a shorter list of "racial" weapons.

The biggest differences are that 4e adds what is (in 5e terms) Misty Step on a short rest recovery, while 5e adds an at-will cantrip. Both are significant departures from AD&D, where elves are not guaranteed to be able to use magic at all. If there is meant to be a harking back to elven F/MUs, I don't think a second level spell on a short rest recovery is wildly different in this respect from a cantrip (which in AD&D terms is a 1st level spell) at will.

 

[pemerton]

What does them having heard of them have to do with the availability of the actual material?

If you've heard of it, you've heard of it from somewhere, or read about it somewhere. You ask around. You look it up online. You make it up. Et.

For instance, if someone has heard that in PS tieflings weren't all the same, but had different ancestries and different infernal traits, then that person already knows enough to implement the change in his/her 4e game!

 

[Shasarak]

Suppose that's true. It's still only a commercial reason for WotC not to change canon. It's not a reason for any particular RPGer to care about canon.

So are you asking why people or any particular RPGer care about things?

My guess is because of the endorphin hit they give you.