D&D 5E 5e Maze spell

[FormerlyHemlock]

Almost all of which can be done with Hold Monster, so I was trying to think of something that took longer than a minute.

I think everyone acknowledges that Hold Monster is amazing, if you can manage to land it and keep it up. But you'll never manage to land it on anything with high Wisdom saves and Legendary Resistance. Hold Monster and Maze don't even occupy the same niche. One is for moderately-dangerous individual foes (say, CR 5 to 12ish), the other is for Legendary monsters.

I thought you were claiming that Maze without Forbiddance doesn't buy you much besides time to heal and/or run away. But in reality it also buys you time to ensure that the monster will get hit by double the usual amount of Eldritch Blast on the round when it returns (readied Eldritch Blast + normal Eldritch Blast on the warlock's turn) and ditto for sneak attacks and grapples and every other attack except Multi/Extra Attack, hobble the monster's mobility, wait out damaging spells and effects (e.g. wait for a dragon's Fear to wear off), cast non-concentration spells like Armor of Agathys and Forcecage (some of which are short-enough duration that there's a real action economy cost to casting them during the fight), and arrange your party's positioning to your liking (archers under cover, tanks up front, rogues hidden, mages under illusions to look like tanks). It really can help you kill monsters, not just run away from them.

 

[Balfore]

So, if I have a Boss (a very high CR Necromancer), can the Boss buff up while he's in the Maze?

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[CapnZapp]

The spell isn't absolutely clear, but my reading is that it doesn't say the monster must try to escape, or that it can't do other things*.

So my answer is yes.

Although if I was Mazed by an unexpectedly powerful group of do-gooders, my immediate concern would be escape, to fight on another day, on my own terms

For example: the Plane Shift spell should work to both escape the maze and get away from the heroes.


Zapp

*) Once Maze explicitly forced its victims to waste their time wandering the maze, but that was many editions ago. Here's a fairly exhaustive summary of how the Maze spell has evolved during the editions (up until Pathfinder).

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...-maze-spell-do-anything-besides-try-to-escape

It IS possible to read the spell's language as prescriptive. That is, it IS possible to read it to mean that no, you can't leave unless you "escape", and the only escape is by making the Int save. I have chosen not to interpret the spell this way, because 5E is generally written in natural language - it would feel uncharacteristic of the rules language to say "until you escape" and not have that mean "by any means you associate with an escape" rather than "in this highly specific way we're about to define".

Or, in other words, if the spell wanted to trap you there with only one way out (apart from sitting out the duration) I would have expected it to make this much more clear.

 

[Balfore]

The spell isn't absolutely clear, but my reading is that it doesn't say the monster must try to escape, or that it can't do other things*.

So my answer is yes.

Although if I was Mazed by an unexpectedly powerful group of do-gooders, my immediate concern would be escape, to fight on another day, on my own terms

For example: the Plane Shift spell should work to both escape the maze and get away from the heroes.


Zapp

*) Once Maze explicitly forced its victims to waste their time wandering the maze, but that was many editions ago. Here's a fairly exhaustive summary of how the Maze spell has evolved during the editions (up until Pathfinder).

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...-maze-spell-do-anything-besides-try-to-escape

It IS possible to read the spell's language as prescriptive. That is, it IS possible to read it to mean that no, you can't leave unless you "escape", and the only escape is by making the Int save. I have chosen not to interpret the spell this way, because 5E is generally written in natural language - it would feel uncharacteristic of the rules language to say "until you escape" and not have that mean "by any means you associate with an escape" rather than "in this highly specific way we're about to define".

Or, in other words, if the spell wanted to trap you there with only one way out (apart from sitting out the duration) I would have expected it to make this much more clear.

Well, the Boss IS a caster himself and has a high INT. So, he will be able to escape the very next turn.
I was thinking the Boss could cast Invisibility, and when he escapes (2 turns later) he could Maze to another square and begin pouncing once more.
This particular player always shoots his wad early, so I expect Maze to be cast fairly early, leaving plenty of combat to follow.
...not to mention, the Boss will have a couple Simulacrum lurking about.


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[Balfore]

I was thinking about the Planeshift spell... or even Invisibility.
Once in the Maze, he could escape easily with the Planeshift spell.
Or he could cast Invisibility before he returns.

This is an epic fight, and will have 10 PCs against a CR 23/25.

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[ArchfiendBobbie]

I was thinking about the Planeshift spell... or even Invisibility.
Once in the Maze, he could escape easily with the Planeshift spell.
Or he could cast Invisibility before he returns.

This is an epic fight, and will have 10 PCs against a CR 23/25.

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Have him use invisibility before the spell ends, use the confusion in the next round to get behind the party's muscle, and then maze the muscle?

 

[Balfore]

Have him use invisibility before the spell ends, use the confusion in the next round to get behind the party's muscle, and then maze the muscle?

Maze the muscle!
Eldrich Knight does nearly 100 points of damage per turn. (When he hits)
His Simulacrum could Maze selective members each round ;-)
Not to mention the multitude of counters that will be thrown out there....
Muahahaaaa

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