D&D 5E In fact, INSERT RULES HERE was a key part of the 3rd edition, and it means 5th edition is still missing full support for this previous edition.

[Igwilly]

Honestly, they did say the game would support my play-style, that they were hearing all the fans, that the final game would be pretty “modular”, etc.
But here I am
Currently my feelings for 5e are not even mixed: they are pretty much a Pandora’s Box (well, Jar, but that’s not the point) which I don’t even dare to open even with my close friends. Unless they make something substantial to my part of the fanbase, D&D pretty much ended to me. I don’t say that with anger, but sadness
I try to be useful while I’m here, though.
The point is, if people want some optional rules for them, why don’t just give them? There will be such a problem in your game if someone else had solid, official but optional rules for things such as: magic marts, deities’ statblocks, balanced modern firearms, unique-and-awesome katanas, ninja-tos, Samurai and Ninja, Naruto’s Edo Tensei jutsu, Chocobos, Gunblades and Buster Swords, PC’s holding the Mjonjr because they’re worthy, etc.?
Don’t think I’m kidding, I’m talking seriously. Official rules have something that local-table DM-rulings and house-rules/third-party rules will never have. Sure, I am quite adept to making some homebrew, and too far-off ideas most probably will need homebrew, that’s the truth, but there’s a point when just… A DM’s job is not supposed to be a game designer; not for such common stuff as magic marts.
I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

 

[CapnZapp]

Important note for any uniformed readers: by "magic item creation" Zapp actually means "magic item creation in a way I don't dislike" since the DMG actually does include support for creating (and even buying and selling) magic items.

I am flattered Aaron that you so clearly have a high regard of my opinion that you follow me around to clarify my statements. I must be truly important to you.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

A DM’s job is not supposed to be a game designer; not for such common stuff as magic marts.
I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

I think I do understand what you are talking about, but you seem to have used a poor example - the 5th edition DMG provides the tools with which a DM can build magic marts, no "game designing" needed.

And to characterize a request for a different WotC devised set of tools for a DM to build magic marts with fairly, it is more "Do it again, and please do it right this time?" than it is "Please give more than zero guidance on this?".

But yes, to a point the DM shouldn't be having to do "game design" - but also to a point, the designers are entirely reasonable in their expectation that a DM is going to tailor the base game to a better fit for their own specific group. Where exactly the line between those two is drawn... that's a difficult thing to agree on, because where I see more than enough info to use to tailor for my own group, another DM might claim to see absolutely nothing at all.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I am flattered Aaron that you so clearly have a high regard of my opinion that you follow me around to clarify my statements. I must be truly important to you.

I haven't "followed" you anywhere - this is a public forum. Get over yourself.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Celebrim]

Back in my day, if a DM wanted specific rules for their table, they just smithed their own rather than waiting for someone to cater to their specific desires.

 

[Igwilly]

[MENTION=6701872]AaronOfBarbaria[/MENTION] ,I saw this supposed system. I also gave my opinion about this subject in the original thread. [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] , when they are small additions, about more-or-less personal subjects, letting the DMs do the work is more tolerable. When we’re talking about whole subsystems which used to be very detailed, not so much. Especially for the fact that you can’t just copy and paste past-edition rules: you have to “adapt”, that is, to redesign it.

 

[Celebrim]

Essentially, I see 3.5 and 4E as pre-prepared food, just heat and eat, and it always tastes the same. And along comes 5e, a base recipe, which says you can make things from scratch, allowing you to add the ingredients you like. 3.5 and 4e's Olive Garden to 5e's local Italian Restaurant. It's all pasta.

It is simply a different approach which creates culture shock to those who came into the game later.

LOL

You know, I think I agree with your thesis, but your view of the evidence suffers from not having very wide exposure.

I promise you, both from experience and from having spent years on EnWorld listening to people describing their game, that 3e and 4e were not pre-prepared food that always tasted the same.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "How you prepare to play and thing about playing a system is at least as if not more important than the rules of the system."

 

[Sammael]

5E is missing some pretty crucial "modules," which were heavily implied to be in the DMG. When DMG actually arrived and offered very few game options and practically zero "modules" that can be turned on or off by individual groups, this was a big disappointment for many players. Sure, the core game is simple and robust enough that even some of those who were initially disappointed (like myself) are playing it, but that doesn't mean more options would be a bad thing...

My pet peeve, as mentioned many times, are the skills. Skills are woefully underdeveloped in 5E and I was really disappointed with the "stats are king" approach (which, in my book, translates to "natural talent is much more important than learning and training" - something I find to be patently false). I will not use 5E for an extended homebrew campaign until an official skills module is made (my players share this sentiment, they feel too constrained by the current system).

The detailed crafting/magic item creation module is not crucial to me, but I know at least one of my players would never switch to 5E unless he could fully convert his cleric of Gond PC. And I'm pretty sure turning him into an artificer and losing the cleric aspect would be a deal-breaker as well.

Neither of these should be required and shouldn't mess up the games of those who don't want to use them. But they should exist as options.

 

[ccs]

Honestly, they did say the game would support my play-style, that they were hearing all the fans, that the final game would be pretty “modular”, etc.
But here I am

And when they figure out a way to make enough $ off your play-style it will be supported. Until then....

Currently my feelings for 5e are not even mixed: they are pretty much a Pandora’s Box (well, Jar, but that’s not the point) which I don’t even dare to open even with my close friends. Unless they make something substantial to my part of the fanbase, D&D pretty much ended to me. I don’t say that with anger, but sadness .

Let me guess, your friends won't play your favorite edition.
Solutions:
A) Get more friends
B) On-line gaming

The point is, if people want some optional rules for them, why don’t just give them?.

$. Specifically the lack of it. To give you those official optional rules WoTC has to assign people to do it. That costs time & $. Time & $ that are better spent designing stuff that will sell a whole lot better....

There will be such a problem in your game if someone else had solid, official but optional rules for things such as: magic marts, deities’ statblocks, balanced modern firearms, unique-and-awesome katanas, ninja-tos, Samurai and Ninja, Naruto’s Edo Tensei jutsu, Chocobos, Gunblades and Buster Swords, PC’s holding the Mjonjr because they’re worthy, etc.?.

Yes, there will be a problem.
Because while the designers are wasting their limited time & budget on that stuff they won't be making stuff useful to me. Or a vast majority of others. And then they won't make enough $ and D&D will end for all of us....
So I'm perfectly willing to see you & your play-style sacrificed for the greater good.

Don’t think I’m kidding, I’m talking seriously. Official rules have something that local-table DM-rulings and house-rules/third-party rules will never have.

And what would that be?

Sure, I am quite adept to making some homebrew, and too far-off ideas most probably will need homebrew, that’s the truth, but there’s a point when just… A DM’s job is not supposed to be a game designer; not for such common stuff as magic marts.

Every DM should be creating whatever extra rules they think they need for their games. If you think you need a magic-mart? Then do your job & make it up.