D&D 5E Revised beastmaster ranger damage...

[Cyber-Dave]

So, after a lot of playtesting, I think it needs a little work. It is very swingy. It is fairly easy for a DM to set up an encounter where it doesn't apply. For example, magic reduction/magic immunity puts an instant damper on the damage output. On the other hand, when a ranger can apply all of it, the damage output is insane after level 5. A more reasonable middle ground would, I think, be a good thing for the game. I would suggest getting rid of the "attack as a reaction" feature. A more moderate feature should replace that. I would also suggest giving the beast the ability to bypass magic reduction. For example, maybe give the ranger a 1st level spell (that requires concentration). While maintained, that spell would allow an animal companion's attacks to count as magical weapons. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Colder]

What if the proficiency bonus to damage rolls was removed? That seems like a better idea to me, and the ability to give the companion ASIs makes the bonus redundant IMO.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Yea. That could work too. If they remove the proficiency bonus to damage rolls and add a spell to the rangers list so that the beast can bypass damage resistance, I think the overall balance would be more egalitarian and less finicky.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Honestly, I think they overcomplicated the whole thing. Just let the animal use all of its actions as an independent creature, but give them extra hit points. Then you can tack on some extra features as the ranger levels, like the ability for the ranger to give up an attack to let the animal attack, or advantage on all saves, the ability to give disadvantage on attacks against the beast, resistance versus slashing/piercing/bludgeoning, etc. A spell to bypass damage resistance is a pretty good idea.

There is little reason not to just basically use the stats from the MM and make use of other simple design space, such as advantage/disadvantage or resistance, to make the creature more defensible. That way they can also let the ranger keep extra attack so they don't have to design the class weirdly.

Instead of making some sort of gestalt entity of a merged humanoid + beast, just give the ranger abilities to pump up animal companions. That way if the rest of the party buys pets, the rangers features will make their pet awesomer anyway.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The easiest way to make the favoured enemy useful without overcomplicating it or being imbalanced: Against favoured enemies all benefits of hunter's mark always apply.
Not too much stacking of damage. You may not learn hunter's mark as a spell at all. Against favoured enemies you have advantage on tracking. You can't lose concentration. So it is meaningful.
Maybe if you find that too good, apply all benefits of hunter's mark only when you use primal awareness to make that ability also useful.

 

[discosoc]

I have a player running the revised BM ranger, and it's pretty ridiculous. Easily pumping out 30-50 damage per round, on average, at level 6. 3 total attacks, 2 from the animal with boosted stats, plus a mark and *usually* sharpshooter. He's making the GWF Champion look pathetic. In another 5 levels, that animal is going to be doing an AoE attack against everything in reach...

The animal honestly feels like another player character, with all the stat boosts and overall combat effectiveness it has. There are definitely some balance issues, but we're too late to change that unless I manage to kill the character.

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Honestly, I think they overcomplicated the whole thing. Just let the animal use all of its actions as an independent creature, but give them extra hit points. Then you can tack on some extra features as the ranger levels, like the ability for the ranger to give up an attack to let the animal attack, or advantage on all saves, the ability to give disadvantage on attacks against the beast, resistance versus slashing/piercing/bludgeoning, etc.

So, in other words, the revised ranger...

 

[Cyber-Dave]

The easiest way to make the favoured enemy useful without overcomplicating it or being imbalanced: Against favoured enemies all benefits of hunter's mark always apply.
Not too much stacking of damage. You may not learn hunter's mark as a spell at all. Against favoured enemies you have advantage on tracking. You can't lose concentration. So it is meaningful.
Maybe if you find that too good, apply all benefits of hunter's mark only when you use primal awareness to make that ability also useful.

It's a neat idea, but are you sure you are not replying in the wrong thread? This post is a non-sequitur to the original post...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It's a neat idea, but are you sure you are not replying in the wrong thread? This post is a non-sequitur to the original post...

Sorry. No. Just didn't read properly. Thought you were speaking abou favoured enemy damage... don't ask...

Sent from my GT-I9506 using EN World mobile app

 

[Cyber-Dave]

I have a player running the revised BM ranger, and it's pretty ridiculous. Easily pumping out 30-50 damage per round, on average, at level 6. 3 total attacks, 2 from the animal with boosted stats, plus a mark and *usually* sharpshooter. He's making the GWF Champion look pathetic. In another 5 levels, that animal is going to be doing an AoE attack against everything in reach...

30 to 50? Something seems off in your calculations. What animal and weapon is s/he using?

The animal honestly feels like another player character, with all the stat boosts and overall combat effectiveness it has. There are definitely some balance issues, but we're too late to change that unless I manage to kill the character.

You are running something very differently than the way the game is being run at the table I am currently playing at. I'm at level 7 right now. My wolf has only 35 hit points with an AC of 16. It goes down, and it goes down fast. It is easy for the DM to put an end to my animal damage boost, at which point in time my damage usually drops as well (because instead of attacking I scramble to try and heal my animal companion before it fails 3 death saves). I've been keeping fairly careful track of my overall damage per encounter, and while it tends to spike high, the mechanics of the animal companion also make it drop low. All in all, keeping a very careful eye on comparative numbers between my entire group (over the course of encounters and not just turns), there is definitly a problem, but the problem isn't as bad as you are making it out to be (at my table).

If I might make a suggestion: speak to the player about making a small modification to the sheet. I am the player in my group, and I just asked the group for permision to remove the proficiency bonus from my animal companion's damage rolls as a house rule. Speak to your player about making a similar change to his sheet and see if that makes the game more enjoyable. Also, if you are not attacking his animal for some reason, start. If he runs the animal into a tactically dangerous space with lots of monsters around, have them gang up on it and knock it out. Force him to position his animal on the outskirts of combat if he wants to keep it protected. When it goes down, use its death saves as a ticking clock that forces him to spend his actions and spell resources on reaching and then healing it. Your game might start to feel more balanced.

In any case, this is the spell I proposed to the group:

Magic Fangs
2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: touch
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
You touch an animal connected to you by the Ranger’s Animal Companion class feature. Until the spell ends, its attacks are considered magical with a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the bonus increases to +2. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you do not need to concentrate on the spell to maintain its effect.