How to keep women in the game?

[doctorbadwolf]

My main suggestion would be not assuming there is a rule for "women" and treat them as individuals. This, plus the communism thread, and some other posts are looking awfully suspicious.

I missed a communism thread!?

Man...that makes me genuinely sad. I mean, your comment here tells me I should be glad, but still...I love communism!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"Quasi-realistic" is another way of saying "not realistic".

And it's not about whether a particular setting is or isn't 'okay'. If everyone in the group is happy with things, then by all means, set your game in Aggressively Unrealistic Medieval England and deviate from real history all you like. Port over a thinly-disguised version of GoT. Heck, run a strictly traditionalist game of Murder-Hobo Lords of Gor if that's what the GM and players clamor for.

But it's disingenuous to take a vastly unrealistic setting - cherry-picking bits here and there of "medieval Europe", slapping in new ones that never existed, and excising realistic elements that are boring or distasteful - and then insisting that elements A and B are there because realism demands it. As you note, it's a fantasy setting. So when a GM is happy to have wizards throwing fireballs, open borders, and a distinct lack of enforced monotheism, but insists that women can't be fighters or a lifted skirt clouds men's minds without fail or consequence, well. That's not actually a game with a historically-accurate setting. That's a game where the GM wants particular gender roles, but won't cop to it, instead letting History take the rap. (Poor History!)

Turning back to the actual subject of the discussion: it's a little difficult to get players to stick around for a game when the game itself, or its setting, takes away from their fun. And for rather a lot of people, "your PC is going to have to put up with the same crap as you do in real life! because realism!" is not something that makes a game sound like a fabulous way to spend a weekend.

Yep. Also...like...the extreme sexism of the general understanding of medieval Europe isn't even all that accurate, especially as a model of how the world has always worked, everywhere. That just...ain't a thing, folks.

If you married a woman in Scandinavia, in 800 AD, she could be the one who technically owned the home you share, she was legally and culturally still part of her family, she could divorce you with relative ease, the kids are hers at least as much as yours, maybe more, she could inherit property, speak at the Thing, rule a kingdom, or fight for a lord. That last one didn't happen as much as recreationalist like to imagine, but it happened, and there is no evidence of any rules against it, or stigma upon it.

Druidic Celtic lands were similarly egalitarian-ish. Certainly moreso than late medieval society, or America circa 1800 AD.

those are both societies from which big standard DnD draws inspiration.

and even later on, a lot of the "rules" were not as strict as we often imagine. Most of them could be flouted by anyone with the right sort of panache. Look at Mademoiselle Maupin*, for the best example ever. She didn't care about the silly gender norms, so she ignored them openly, and did it with such charm and style that she was celebrated, rather than stigmatized. Surely PCs are at least as cool as she was, when she first set out into the world.

Not height of her Opera career, level, of course. I mean, not many PCs are so cool they can duel the jerk in the opera production, then sleep with him, then headline the 17th century France equivalent of Coachella.

But maybe they are, "take the holy orders because your girlfriend got stuck in a convent, set something on fire, Sneak your gf out of the convent, shack up with her for a while, then go sing insults at d-bags in taverns and duel the ones that get in your face about", cool. Maybe.

*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_d'Aubigny

 

[Blue]

I married my female GM 28 years ago (and a couple of months). That worked.

But, but, if she leaves your game now she gets half your minis!!



(And congrats on almost 3 decades of marriage.)

 

[GMMichael]

I married my female GM 28 years ago (and a couple of months). That worked.

Well, there goes my ball-and-chain joke. Here's a video link full of answers for you TL;DRers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSVQtjhn_wo

 

[Lord Mhoram]

(And congrats on almost 3 decades of marriage.)

Thanks.

We met in 86 (or 87) - she started gaming when the first hardcover AD&D came out, and I had started a few months earlier with basic (though not together). We met playing HERO, I moved into the area and she was running the game.

 

[jimmifett]

But not making d#%k jokes seems to help our table.

The girls at my tables have the best of these jokes tho.

 

[cmad1977]

The girls at my tables have the best of these jokes tho.

Mine too. But that's a door you gotta let them open,


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[jimmifett]

Mine too. But that's a door you gotta let them open,

No I don't. The door is already wide open and inviting, they can decide if they want to come in. I'm an adult, and so are they. If they can't handle adult conversation, thats on them.

 

[cmad1977]

No I don't. The door is already wide open and inviting, they can decide if they want to come in. I'm an adult, and so are they. If they can't handle adult conversation, thats on them.

Ok. If penis jokes count as adult conversation...well.. we have different definitions of adult.



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[aramis erak]

As for historical vs non, not everyone plays only D&D... so if one's dissmissiveness of the concept is based upon the crazy that is D&D, realize that's your hangup for being stuck on D&D, not a flaw in those that like historical, semi-historical, or alternate-history games.

Pendragon is much more realistic than D&D in a great many ways... including combat lethality... and includes modeling the physical differences and societal learned skills differences in the core rules. (Women have a smaller size, and higher dex, and different starting skill levels, as well as several things they can do without losing glory that men lose glory for doing)

GURPS WWII is likewise a realistic setting, set in a time when discrimination was still rampant, but the changes in society were happening. (WWII is the era when married women moved into the workforce en masse in the US, for example.)

..Not to over-generalize, but IME, female gamers tend to stick around longer when there are more than one in the group.

There is probably some truth to that. And if the whole group gels and everyone is on the same level in terms of social interaction.

I've noticed that, too. Both elements.

It all boils down to respect. (and not the faux respect so often demanded these days. I mean genuine respect)