• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

D&D 5E Blade Pact Warlocks and Conventional Wisdom

Irda, as to hexblade

I believe this would end much debate. I also think they were trying to balance the extra damage potential of two handed weapons with the benefit of only having a casting stat to consider. I hear you, but think this was very intentional. I think this was merely a balance thing. Maybe an overcorrectio
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I also think they were trying to balance the extra damage potential of two handed weapons with the benefit of only having a casting stat to consider. I hear you, but think this was very intentional. I think this was merely a balance thing. Maybe an overcorrection
Of for sure. I knew what they were trying to do, but it's still wrong. They didn't think it through.

The fighting styles are balanced against each other. The two-handed weapons do more damage per hit, but two-weapon fighters get more attacks and sword & board fighters have better AC. And SWF bladelocks can attack and cast spells in the same turn using Bonus Actions and Reactions. By limiting the +CHR to non-2H weapons all you're really doing is limiting the fighting style choice to one of the other three.

Additionally if you take Warcaster you can now choose between TWF and S&B, but not 2HW. Why? It makes no sense. I like rolling 2d6 for damage as much as the next guy, but it's not unbalanced against extra attacks for +2-5 AC (accounting for the possibility of magic shields). Especially since extra attacks means extra Hex damage.

If the Hexblade is balanced with +CHR for SWF, TWF or S&B, then he's balanced for +CHR to 2HW as well, because the styles are balanced. If 2HW is too good, the others are too good also.

Personally I think they're all fine. We know the blade-lock is underpowered and has MAD issues (which are related points) as written. This change neatly fixes it.
 

My preferred bladelock story is more of the "Black Knight" type, rather than the sneaky bastard type. A soldier or other fighting man who was offered a bit more power and in a moment of weakness or anger accepted. First level as fighter (possibly 2 levels for action surge) and the rest as fiend patron warlock. I call the build the "Tanklock" as they have phenomenal damage mitigation capabilities if played intelligently. But that's only one variant.

I am fairly certain that is the type of story that informs the design of the Hexblade.
 

I am fairly certain that is the type of story that informs the design of the Hexblade.


Probably - if I remember right the Hexblade patron is an uber powerful magic weapon that can form pacts with warlocks.


I mainly play adventure league, so no UA options for me. Plus, from the brief glance I gave it, the Hexblade patron didn't seem as appealing as the Fiend patron + 1 level of fighter. :)
 

Giltonio, your critical eye is appreciated. We agree in some areas for sure. I still have some other thoughts about the matter which are in contrast to your position.

Yes, the eldritch blast warlock could do all of that. And have an extra invocation and boon. However, if in melee range (it happens) they would be worse off throwing eldritch blast at disadvantage. If we do not assume being ringed by tanks, being in melee happens. That would not be good. Disadvantage leads to misses and less damage. I believe that a blade pact warlock with armor and weapons has advantages over the tome warlock as well as the chain pact in many combat situations.

If you like chain or tome (I think they are cool too!) I understand. However, I would take blade pact (myself) over the others in a situation in which I am up close and personal with the enemy, am behind enemy lines and want to take out the big bad evil guy or in some other cases. But that is just opinion. You can kill an evil guy with eldritch blast alone. I like the option of using it as well as blade.

I believe blade pact adds an option at the cost of one. With that said, I also think that with the right feats and possibility of a magic weapon, the blade pact warlock can ultimately do more damage than pure eldritch blaster, particularly if the target is not hexed. I have seen but not computed the math over the lifespan of the character. I believe this to be true up to three eldritch blasts. Four might win out especially with hex. Again, I would take the former over the later with disadvantage myself when applicable.

What we agree on is this: to get blade pact, you need to give up chain or tome feature. Blade pact cannot tank as well as a fighter. Blade pact will have 1-2 fewer invocations to "spare" at level 12. They might get some features sooner/easier if they multiclass. Agreed on all counts.

What I do not agree with some posters on is this: the blade pact will do less damage overall (heck they might blast and then slice!), that they are not survivable even if in armor and must multiclass to have potentially large impacts on the game. I think we are only talking about tanking here and I do not assume that play style myeslf.

I do not agree for hopefully fairly obvious reasons. Some say they do much less damage than others. Yes, the battlemaster is poised to do more damage in melee. Again, I do not think that is all the blade pact is supposed to be accountable for. They have (potentially) ability to disrupt and circumvent and gimp the enemy.

My plan for blade pact (single classed) warlock is simple. First, have fun and play a creepy magical warrior! Second, throw spells and blast where applicable. Draw my blade and deliver solid blows (not absolute top DPR every round!) when the enemy closes and EB would be at disadvantage. Lastly, I hope to disrupt with illusions disguises and other at will abilities where possible to hopefully have some of these aforementioned fights on favorable ground! I hope to make good use of pact boons, invocations and patron abilities of course. I might even take a great sword to the BBEG if I get up on him when others are stuck by mooks. We shall see!

What I do not plan to do is be the main "tank" if your will. If I have to plug the hole in the lines though, I am as ready as any non-fighter/barbarian and I dare say more ready than some due to armor class and damage potential.

The biggest challenge for me is the MAD as well as the feats. Given moderately and heavily armored, I get to bump my strength up by two (as of fourth level). The feat tax here is one feat to be heavily armored, in effect. The problem comes later, at level 8. I would like Great Weapon Master or polearm master. That is expensive since I would also like and ASI or perhaps warcaster.

The latter might be circumvented if I do not rely on many concentration spells in combat. I think hex can be overrated for example and might want to spend a precious slot on fireball, or charming someone, etc.

But in the end I am reminded of another fact: the game does not assume all of the feats we have access to. Playing without them is the default. As a result, if I am missing a recommended feat, I am still several feats ahead of the default assumption.

If others suggest we need all recommended feats or else risk throwing the game, I think they are forgetting feats are not required, at all. Imagine that! And the game by all accounts still works...

I am just not sure heavy armor is worth it. Medium armor with a 14 dex is just 1 off from the best of heavy armor, and the best of heavy armor is not affordable until later levels anyway. It seems to me medium armor is probably enough, and using that extra feat for something else might be a wiser move.
 

I would posit that most of the UA Hexblade features/invocations could be cannibalized into general/blade'lock only invocations that would go a long way towards fixing the blade'lock.
 

I've long thought that the Blade Pact warlock really should have been its own class, similar to the Paladin or Ranger. (The Hexblade class reborn?).

Fighter 1/Bladelock X is just the most efficient kludge to achieve something similar. Hexblade patron Bladelock is another.
 


One other thing I noted. Everyone talks about an invocation tax for bladelock. As I look at it, time and chain also require additional invocation to be full featured. Again not sure why this is rately noted for fairer comparison.
 

One other thing I noted. Everyone talks about an invocation tax for bladelock. As I look at it, time and chain also require additional invocation to be full featured. Again not sure why this is rately noted for fairer comparison.

The two classes for comparison are Bladesinger wizard and Valor Bard. All three are Full-caster classes with a little bit of melee mixed in. But Blade singer and Valor Bard both get an Extra attack automatically, and Bard gets the Tankiest proficiencies with Medium armor and Shields, as well as all Martial Weapons. So, at the very least, the Bladelock should get the free extra attack like the other two.
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top