D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Selvarin]

This is why I take the novel characters of FR and see the books, etc., as the perception of those around them. I would not expect to see hide or hair, nor an utterance, in a regular game campaign. There are other characters who would have more impact and usefulness by the very fact they aren't El, one of the Seven Sister, Drizzt, Spider (Regis), or whatever. To me, bringing them into a game would be about as cheezy as a cameo/cross-over character in a 70's or early 80's TV show.

 

[Seramus]

But not in the Forgotten Realms

The Forgotten Realms is part of the greater cosmology of The Great Wheel, which includes our own earth among many other places, including Dragon Magazine articles written by Ed Greenwood himself depicting various characters interacting on earth, and subtle references to the greater cosmology at the end of the Time of Troubles novels.

Mount Olympus is actually in Arborea!

But... we're totally getting off track. It's a lot of fun, but I wasn't trying to turn this into an exchange of nitpicks. Just explaining that many characters in the Forgotten Realms, by their canon characterizations, love to get into other people's business and probably will attempt to involve themselves in any big plots. As another poster mentioned, it's a great idea to create opposition for them to keep those characters busy while your players get to have their own spotlights.

I think we are done here. Bye.

Good luck!

 

[Caliban]

The novels depict him as doing so, although since 4E/5E the Old Farte is generally hiding from enemies and keeping lower-than-low in the process of doing so. But Elminster is portrayed as working schemes within schemes, wheels within wheels, for the betterment of whatever high-minded goal it may be. In FR supplements not so much although he has been used as a tool on occasion to get an adventure started. this is another instance where the perception is greater than what's actually happening, but with good reason.

In a novel, Elminster isn't an NPC.

It's his story and his adventures, so he's effectively a PC. The writer has to make it interesting, or what's the point?

But even if he's a schemer, that doesn't mean he is personally showing up to take care of everything - that's why he's more of a quest giver and source of knowledge in the supplements.

You can use him for that or choose to have him remain "off screen" when running your own adventures.

 

[hawkeyefan]

This is where I agree with the other side: Elminster is annoying as all get out. I've never read any of the novels that focus on him specifically, so maybe those are okay, but as far as being an NPC, I can understand how people don't like him.

This is why I've never used him once. And that's where I disagree witg folks about Elminster being a problem. His inclusion is entirely up to the DM. So the DM has to know his players and if they will like an appearance by Elminster or if they'll roll their eyes and groan.

I actually don't think my players would mind at all, but I just don't like the idea myself. So Elminster may as well not exist in my game.

 

[MackMcMacky]

This is where I agree with the other side: Elminster is annoying as all get out. I've never read any of the novels that focus on him specifically, so maybe those are okay, but as far as being an NPC, I can understand how people don't like him.

This is why I've never used him once. And that's where I disagree witg folks about Elminster being a problem. His inclusion is entirely up to the DM. So the DM has to know his players and if they will like an appearance by Elminster or if they'll roll their eyes and groan.

I actually don't think my players would mind at all, but I just don't like the idea myself. So Elminster may as well not exist in my game.

What is distinctive about Forgotten Realms to you besides the powerful NPCs? What am I supposed to like enough to run a FRealms campaign when I don't like Elminster, the Simbul, etc.?

 

[hawkeyefan]

What is distinctive about Forgotten Realms to you besides the powerful NPCs? What am I supposed to like enough to run a FRealms campaign when I don't like Elminster, the Simbul, etc.?

I don't know. I have no idea what you like. I gave a pretty detailed example from my current campaign a few pages ago that explained what I chose to use and what I ignored and why. That post went largely ignored, so I'm not going to go into all that detail again.

What's cool about any setting other than the high level NPCs? I'm sure that the FR has stuff that you'd dig, just like Krynn may, or Oerth, or Mystara. When we're talking about these "kitchen sink/Tolkienesque" settings, it boils down to a matter of preference based on which setting has the most elements that appeal to an individual.

I personally like the idea of separate cuty states loosely affiliated for common interest, but separated by distance and wild territory. I like the Empire of Shade. I like Sembia, a nation of roguish, self serving merchant houses. I like the untamed jungles of Chult.

None of these things is necessarily uniquely original or specific to the FR. But neither are the elements of the other settibga I mentioned. They're all just as generic or easily moved to another setting as any of the FR elements.

But regardless if setting, if I as the DM choose to have NPCs swoop in and save the day, or even just assist the PCs, and my players fon't dig that, then I have erred as a DM and shouldn't blame it on the setting.

 

[Maxperson]

What is distinctive about Forgotten Realms to you besides the powerful NPCs? What am I supposed to like enough to run a FRealms campaign when I don't like Elminster, the Simbul, etc.?

All of the countries and their histories are what is distinctive about the Realms. The powerful NPCs are not what make it distinctive. They're nothing more than names. Elminster is the same as Raistlin who is the same as Mordenkainen, and so on. Powerful wizard again?!?!? Nothing distinctive about that.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I'm the DM. NPCs, just like any other element of the world, do whatever - I - want them to.
They do NOT function autonomously. They are not controlled by some script written by, or believed by others.

That's one of the weirdest things about this thread - that it seems that some posters assign independent autonomy and agency to FR NPCs, as if the DM is forced, beyond his or her will, to include them.

It's the DMs fault if they overuse or abuse powerful NPCS, and not the fault of the setting. Just like it's the DM's fault if they overuse or abuse powerful magic items - it's not the fault of the DMG for having them available and describing them. DMs aren't forced to use or hand out powerful magic items at low level simply because they are available in the DMG, right? Powerful NPCs and powerful magic items are the tools of the DM, to be used by the fiat of the DM and the DM only. Attempting to assign their abuse to anyone outside the DM simply because they were available for the DM to abuse is disingenuous.

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our setting books, but in ourselves." - Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, perhaps a tiny bit misquoted...

 

[Demetrios1453]

What is distinctive about Forgotten Realms to you besides the powerful NPCs? What am I supposed to like enough to run a FRealms campaign when I don't like Elminster, the Simbul, etc.?

I love the deep and rich history of the setting (I mean, after all, what other setting could have 160-page book dedicated to just its bare-bones chronology alone, based on already written material? A full-fledged history would take up a bookshelf!); 40,000+ years of history as a rich and colorful tapestry background. I love the varied and interesting nations and cultures of the setting, and how they interact. I love the depth of the descriptions of its settlements and other sites; descriptions so deep in detail that it is incredibly evocative when it comes to the theater of the mind. Once one goes down the rabbit hole and reads up as much as possible on the setting, even just based on game accessories alone and ignoring the novels, it can at times almost feel like you're there, such is the depth of description...

 

[Caliban]

Just explaining that many characters in the Forgotten Realms, by their canon characterizations, love to get into other people's business and probably will attempt to involve themselves in any big plots. As another poster mentioned, it's a great idea to create opposition for them to keep those characters busy while your players get to have their own spotlights

Wow, if you only you'd been there to tell me how to run all the NPC's in my campaigns over the last 30 years.

With sterling advice like: all of them "love to get into other people's business and probably will attempt to involve themselves in any big plots". That's top notch stuff right there.

It's just too bad you weren't there to ruin my games for me. I don't know how I made it through.