D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Hussar]

Considering I just gave you over 200 npcs in Hommlet, half of which don't have a star block and only 15 of which were actually built using pc rules, I don't feel the particular need to provide additional evidence.

 

[Sadras]

But, there's the rub isn't it? In the 5e modules, we're not talking about local threats. We have flying bloody castles and dragons threatening the Sword Coast with releasing Tiamat. That's pretty high on the radar. So, it's not really that unreasonable to wonder just where Elminister et al are during all of this. Particularly in a setting where high double digit level NPC's are not particularly rare. I mean, Waterdeep has how many high level NPC's in it? I don't actually know beyond, more than 2. And Waterdeep is directly being threatened here. Yet, there's no mobilization.

I'm not sure why this is seen as such a completely unreasonable criticism.

From my perspective its 100% fair. I'm running Sundering/ToD right now and yes I have to come up with a reason why the powers that be are not more actively involved and it's been left up to the characters to do the heavy lifting. For that I do the research, as I'm no expert on the setting, but I like that sort of thing - trying to 'make things work' and I can certainly understand why others might not be interested.

I don't own enough modules of other settings to know if FR is the only one guilty of that. I suspect not. Mystara in my opinion has many many more high-level NPCs than FR does - and we are talking about NPCs with character levels in excess of level 20.

 

[Maxperson]

Ok, I think that, right there, gets to the heart of the issue. You are factually incorrect here. The novels and the modules most certainly are considered canon to the setting. They are officially canon. Now, you don't consider them thus, and that's fine. But, you have to realize that you are the only one working from this definition.

Quote me the official statement saying that's true.

 

[Maxperson]

I think I would be writing novella length posts to cover all the possible ways you would misconstrue what I say.

Essentially, all you are doing now is saying, "I'm right and you are wrong." I'm curious, about how old are you?

Wow. You come out and declare my argument weak based on nothing more than your say so, effectively an "I'm right and you are wrong.". I rebut with the truth about Mordenkain based on his published history and his creator. Then you declare that I'm the one engaging in childish behaviors. At this point it's clear that I'm not dealing with someone who is debating in good faith. Have a good day.

 

[lowkey13]

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[lowkey13]

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[Maxperson]

Well, here's the Forgotten Realms wiki on canon-

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Realms_Wiki:Canon

Things to note-

The Greenwood definition is any published source related to the Forgotten Realms campaign. Which is pretty expansive! And would include, inter alia, video games.

Because of how expansive that definition is, the wiki has a hierarchy of "canon."

The problem is that ... well, canon is really a fan-created concept when it comes to these sorts of things. It isn't like there is a church body creating (ahem) canon law. Which is why debates over canon are so prevalent in fan communities, and why we discuss continuity errors, and retcons, and whether canon is "official," or "semi-official," or "implict," and so on.

Of course, arguing about canon is hard in a narrative universe (such as Star Trek, or Star Wars, or even the Whoniverse). It's nearly impossible in a campaign setting! Because the purpose of a campaign setting is to allow people to play in that setting and, um, create their own canon. So it's an ultimately fruitless debate; one can either enjoy FR because of the amount of lore, or not enjoy FR because of the amount of lore.

Thanks for the link. It helps with what fans consider to be canon, but it does lead with this.

"There is no generally accepted, official, hard-and-fast set of rules given by TSR, Inc. (TSR) or Wizards of the Coast (WotC) for determining outright what is canon..."

And has this.

"Most are more inclined to agree with Greenwood as he is the 'father' of the Forgotten Realms. Furthermore, Ed Greenwood is the creator of the Forgotten Realms, and according to the original agreement between him and TSR, everything he writes and says regarding the Forgotten Realms is canon, unless or until superseded by published material from TSR or WotC."

I'm curious to see that agreement.

 

[Aldarc]

And thus again we find our discussion gravitating towards Pontius Pilate's infamous question (were he a tabletop gamer): "What is canon?" But is this really the road we want our travel-wearied boots to retread?

 

[jayoungr]

If Superman was floating around in the background of a Daredevil movie I think the response would be "Superman in a Marvel movie? Go back to DC, Superman, you're drunk."

Well yeah, that too.

By the same token, one of the bigger criticisms I saw of CA:TWS, is, where is Tony Stark or Thor? I mean, they drop a bloody Helicarrier into the bay and Tony's what, having cocktails?

Actually, in that specific case, it's fairly easy to rationalize; everything was very clandestine until the helicarriers started falling, and that whole thing was over in a matter of minutes. Probably there was not time for anyone else to find out what was going on and show up. You can picture Tony Stark etc. arriving five minutes after the end of the movie and saying "What the heck just happened?"

I dunno, maybe there are just two types of viewers/readers out there--those who think it's a big deal if the high-level characters don't show up, and those who don't.

 

[lowkey13]

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