D&D 5E Mearls on other settings

[Remathilis]

They tried inclusive and it tanked. Also inclusive doesn't mean make everything the same, if you want sandbox you have FR 9or Nerth or Eberron or Spelljammer etc etc etc).

You make the wrong assumption that D&D is the same for all people, hell in 5E they explcity say there are only 4 classes and race and Darksun has those.

Its like movies, f every moive had the same plot or genre it would be a boring world. I do not like Ravenloft or Dragonloance that much but I do not expect them to rewrite or mutilate thase settings to cater to my tastes as there is nothing they can do to those setting that will make them appeal to me or at least that will not cost them their existing fans.

I did not buy Curse of Strahd for this reason even if its a "generic" version of RL.

Let the Record reflect that the 3e updates of Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, and the 4e updates of Eberron and Dark Sun, as well as 5e's Curse of Strahd, all "tanked".

Well no WONDER we're stuck in the Realms for the foreseeable future; I guess it IS the only setting that makes money...

 

[Zardnaar]

Let the Record reflect that the 3e updates of Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, and the 4e updates of Eberron and Dark Sun, as well as 5e's Curse of Strahd, all "tanked".

Well no WONDER we're stuck in the Realms for the foreseeable future; I guess it IS the only setting that makes money...

Well there was a reaosn FR is the 5E dafult and was the only setting to survive the purge when WoTC took over.

The 4 ed setting did not do well because of 4E and the changes they made, the 3E ones were farmed out to 3pp which may have been part of the problem as the DS one for example sucked in Dragon and Dungeon.

Some of the are to niche and some issues of Dungeon sales went down when certain issues had a setting prominently displayed and Paizo said it was not FR and that leaves Eberron.

Al Qadim made a small profit, the Dragonlance novels and 1E one also did, DL saved D&D. Some of the setting could probably make money if they were run better (ie not sold at a loss like PLanescape and probably DS)

Its why I said I would go back to the oringals, TSR/WotC metaplot has drove away the fans- spellplague and Dragonlance has been butchered around 3 or 4 times worse than any of the FR metaplot stories except perhaps the Spellplague.

A main problem all of the setting had that attracted you to them were often destroyed by that metaplot.

Darksun "Here is this cool/interesting setting, there is a singular Dragon and the world is harsh ruled by 7 despots". 4 years later the Dragon is dead along with 4/7 Sorcerer Kings and surfing Druids (they farmed the setting out to freelancers and reassigned the inventors of the setting).

Its also why I said they should bring back the original authors where possible and they are willing, Heard is keen, probably Hickman and Weiss, Tim Brown maybe, Greenwood is always involved with FR.

 

[Remathilis]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mikemearls/status/886642893267456000

My guess is there are going to be some very angry "X setting" fans in the future...

 

[Eltab]

I want 5e Gamma World.

Getting there requires high-tech and psionics. Both of which are not anywhere near ready yet. Psionics at least has buzz and ideas moving around.

Sigh

 

[Zardnaar]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mikemearls/status/886642893267456000

My guess is there are going to be some very angry "X setting" fans in the future...

Doesn't really reveal that much.

Besides if they change Darksun from "Its elemental planes are wrecked" to (its part of the multiverse but its access to the Elemental PLanes are being choked" it doesn't really fundamentally alter the way the setting works.

Besides if they do do something very silly like the Spellplague you just don't buy it, it tanks and they fix it in the next edition right?

 

[Obryn]

You completely have missed my point, and at this point there is no further need in arguing it. I want a Dungeons & Dragons setting called Dark Sun, you want Dark Sun, the RPG. Going by how Wizards and its partners had Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Greyhawk, and Dark Sun updated in the 3e era and how Dark Sun and Eberron were updated in 4e, I think inclusive adaptions are a far better marketing strategy than trying to cater to grognards who still can't let go of 2nd edition.

When the eventual updates to those other D&D settings come, I fully expect you'll be disappointed.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of folks who are struggling with the difference between a campaign setting, and an [insert edition here] campaign setting.

Zard seems to want AD&D 2e Dark Sun - that is, everything exactly as it was in 2e.

But WotC is going to publish settings for the current edition. Dark Sun 5e, Spelljammer 5e, etc. Now, given that 5e is Nostalgia Edition, it might hew a little closer to the 2e settings that you or I would expect, but then again - if folks want the 2e setting it's right there in DM's Guild

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah. I think there's a lot of folks who are struggling with the difference between a campaign setting, and an [insert edition here] campaign setting.

Zard seems to want AD&D 2e Dark Sun - that is, everything exactly as it was in 2e.

But WotC is going to publish settings for the current edition. Dark Sun 5e, Spelljammer 5e, etc. Now, given that 5e is Nostalgia Edition, it might hew a little closer to the 2e settings that you or I would expect, but then again - if folks want the 2e setting it's right there in DM's Guild

No I want a Darksun that respects the themes of 2E DS and some races and classes do not fit Darksun.

Other setting like Spelljammer for example are custom made that any class and race work very well no modification required except for things like ship to ship combat.

If you want to change DS just because you won't mind f they re release Nerathand strip out Dragonborn, Tieflings, Bael Turoth and Arkhosia because 6E removes them for whatever reason.

 

[Obryn]

No I want a Darksun that respects the themes of 2E DS and some races and classes do not fit Darksun.

Other setting like Spelljammer for example are custom made that any class and race work very well no modification required except for things like ship to ship combat.

If you want to change DS just because you won't mind f they re release Nerathand strip out Dragonborn, Tieflings, Bael Turoth and Arkhosia because 6E removes them for whatever reason.

The problem is that your definition of "do(es) not fit" is bound explicitly to a 26-year-old box set. The nonexistence of certain 5e races or classes was due to AD&D 2e's rules and the time it was released, not due to the character and nature of the setting.

And what's more, you're even hewing to a version of Dark Sun that never was - one where the PCs are continually deprotagonized, while the actual setting had characters more powerful than ever seen before. (And that was part of the sales pitch, remember. Stats up to 24. Start at 3rd level. Every character with a wild talent.)

Campaign settings move forward. They grow. They are not written as fiction; they are written so people can play games in them.


As for some hypothetical 6e Nerath - Youve got it backwards. The question isn't, "What if we get rid of Tieflings and Dragonborn?" it's "How will all of these new 6e concepts fit into the setting? What will they look like?" And I'd love to see it. You're asking about a subtractive change, while I've been talking about an additive, evolutionary process that keeps pace with the current edition of the game.

 

[Azzy]

I'm certainly glad NONE of you work for WotC.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'm certainly glad NONE of you work for WotC.

I don't know, I kind of get the idea of adding things to the setting if they fit the setting.

For example, from the little I played of Dark Sun... well, I think we ignored 90% of the point of the setting, but from what I've heard the Desert and the idea of Elemental powers is a big deal. Doesn't the concept of the Storm Herald Barbarian with the path of the Desert fit that kind of setting like a glove?

I don't care if barbarians never existed in Athas before, the idea of a tribal nomad who is able to channel the might of the desert to destroy his foes, in a world where the might of the desert is a big deal, makes perfect sense to me. However, the other two sections of the Storm Herald, especially the cold tundra version, make incredibly little sense. I don't even think they have snow-capped mountains in Athas so having that Barbarian in a game would be a tough sell, I don't think I could accept it.


So, the idea IMO isn't "Can I find a place for my Polar Bear Divine Chanter of Kord character in Athas" but it is asking, are there new ideas and things in the game that make sense to appear in Athas? Are there classes or races that didn't exist in an older edition that fit the setting very well with a minor change or two?


Also, we could look towards potential re-works of ideas, I only played 4e Dark Sun, but the ability to choose whether you preserve or defile with each casting was kind of cool. I was a goody-two shoes so I never did, but I had that option. That seems like a good thing to keep, instead of making a whole new subclass to represent each side of the coin and only using those two.


Orcs in Kyrnn seem to be a big deal to some people (I thought they were there but its been too long since I read the novels) but if it truly messes with the setting that much, fine, leave them out, but I wouldn't leave out Tritons from Dragon Lance, because they seem like they'd make a good interpretation of the Sea Elves (also, I really don't want to see 20 different elf subraces, just, no please no)


I just think we shouldn't limit ourselves if we don't need to. Just because every setting has Humans, Dwarves, Elves and Halflings doesn't mean they are all the exact same setting, very few settings are fully or even partially defined by the races or classes available, and environment, cosmology, and types of threats are a bigger indicator of a setting and what it is meant to be like than what kind of characters are at the table.