D&D 5E Is D&D a Story or a Game? Discuss.

[Magil]

If DnD is a set of rules that tell you what could happen, which rules are there to describe what could happen when the PCs walk into their first Pub?

That's rather the point, isn't it? What isn't covered by the rules isn't really playing Dungeons and Dragons. It's just freeform roleplaying. Which is fine, and generally every session will involve at least some of this, and possibly a great deal of it.

This is a meaningful distinction, because when one argues the merits/faults of a game system, they need to accurately distinguish what the system supports and what is going on independent of the system.

 

[schnee]

If it were a story, it would be decided by an author. A game is decided by dice.

It's a game.

The story in D&D is an outcome of a game arbitrated by dice. So, you try to do a thing, the dice say if you do it or not, you tell the story about the outcome.

'He died horribly in an avalanche without getting revenge' is never a story one sets out to tell, but it happens in D&D. Because the dice made it happen instead of an author.

'She fired the final arrow that critically struck and slew the Dragon just as it was about to burn the rest of the party to cinders' is only dramatic in D&D because there was a chance it wasn't going to work. The dice could have denied that drama. This time it didn't.

It's a hard, crunchy game in a soft story wrapper.

--

If we're honest with ourselves, Monopoly is similar - 'I had Park Place, was about to get Boardwalk, but got bankrupted by landing on a double hotel, and that other rat bastige got it and won!'

D&D just has a few more layers of mechanical hooks to attach those kinds of stories.

 

[robus]

The story in D&D is an outcome of a game arbitrated by dice. So, you try to do a thing, the dice say if you do it or not, you tell the story about the outcome.

Hmm - surely the game is arbitrated by the DM who occasionally relies on the dice/rules when an outcome is uncertain. D&D without a DM is not D&D IMHO.

 

[schnee]

Hmm - surely the game is arbitrated by the DM who occasionally relies on the dice/rules when an outcome is uncertain. D&D without a DM is not D&D IMHO.

Occasionally uses dice and rules? Haha. It's the exact opposite in D&D.

D&D has a very crunchy, rules-driven system. One of the most. Certainly the most complex compared to systems being made now like Fate, Apocalypse World, Reign, and Gumshoe.

Dice resolve all conflicts. The only time a DM gets involved in resolution is on edge cases that the rules don't cover, or when they arbitrarily decide to start overriding rules that already exist. Otherwise, they're mainly building the situations - using encounter difficulty rules - and acting as referee to resolve things using dice.

If you're not using dice, that's, oh, Amber or Polaris or something else entirely.

 

[robus]

Occasionally uses dice and rules? Haha. It's the exact opposite in D&D.

D&D has a very crunchy, rules-driven system. One of the most. Certainly the most complex compared to systems being made now like Fate, Apocalypse World, Reign, and Gumshoe.

Dice resolve all conflicts. The only time a DM gets involved in resolution is on edge cases that the rules don't cover, or when they arbitrarily decide to start overriding rules that already exist. Otherwise, they're mainly building the situations - using encounter difficulty rules - and acting as referee to resolve things using dice.

If you're not using dice, that's, oh, Amber or Polaris or something else entirely.

I'm certainly using dice - but that's cool if you have the dice lead at your table.

 

[clearstream]

I'm certainly using dice - but that's cool if you have the dice lead at your table.

"Let the dice fall as they may", is the rule at my table.

If that means my cool evil guy who was going to be the central theme of a year long campaign dies in scene one, so be it. Or if instead he crits the Rogue inflicting massive damage and killing her with no hope of revival... so be it!

I find this approach palpably amplifies the tension, and validates the achievements of the party.

 

[robus]

"Let the dice fall as they may", is the rule at my table.

If that means my cool evil guy who was going to be the central theme of a year long campaign dies in scene one, so be it. Or if instead he crits the Rogue inflicting massive damage and killing her with no hope of revival... so be it!

I find this approach palpably amplifies the tension, and validates the achievements of the party.

Moi aussi - but (outside of combat) I, as DM, decide when the dice are called in the resolve uncertainty.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Moi aussi - but (outside of combat) I, as DM, decide when the dice are called in the resolve uncertainty.

Yep, I often tell them no dice rolls are needed since their course of action and the outcome is not really in doubt.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That's a good example to raise. Let's apply two different descriptions of what these kids are doing.

A) The kids are a story. Or perhaps their play is a story.
B) The kids are telling a story. Or their play fabricates a story.

Does our description turn everything into tomatoes, or using it can we still tell tomatoes from potatoes? Is our description progressive i.e. can we use it to move forward our understanding? If we say the kids are a story, I feel like we're stuck there. I've no idea how children can be a story and I don't really know what is meant by story, seeing as it is also children. It has a certain whimsical charm, but for me lacks analytical power. Because of that, I can't use it to better understand kids or stories. The description really, when you get down to it, takes us is all sort of odd directions.

On the other hand, if I differentiate kids from playing from storytelling from stories, I have a lot to become interested in. Is play the same as storytelling? That's a very meaningful question. What constitutes good story telling and how might I recognise a good story. I don't know about you, but for me really useful questions roll right on out of the description.

So in a nutshell that's how I approach this. Story telling happens in D&D, no question, but D&D is not a story. That latter description is a dead end. Maybe when the OP asserts "D&D is also a story" that's just poorly chosen wording. If so, fine. I'll back right down and say - "Oh, you meant does D&D include story telling? Right then, that's a worthwhile description to look into."

Does that help clarify/make sense?

It clarifies, and it makes sense, but I don't think the distinctions are all that important.

I don't know if I see all that significant a difference between "telling a story" and "a story".

To go back to film, we can all point at a movie and say "that's a film" or "that's a story" or "that's acting". It is all of those things.

Sure, we can discuss the difference....one's a medium, one's the product, and one's the method of creation.....but that doesn't mean that the film isn't all those things.

 

[schnee]

I'm certainly using dice - but that's cool if you have the dice lead at your table.

Thanks, I do enjoy D&D. Enjoy your 'mother may I' derivative at yours.