D&D 5E "when circumstances are appropriate for hiding"

[FrogReaver]

Okay, so, what if there was a trap door behind the rock, providing an exit? Would the Halfling get a check then, because there's an exit?

No. but If he took the exit and then hid he would.

 

[Ovinomancer]

No. but If he took the exit and then hid he would.

Okay, but, as an observer, would I know the Halfling went down a trapdoor or something because he went behind that rock and is now hidden from me?

 

[FrogReaver]

Okay, but, as an observer, would I know the Halfling went down a trapdoor or something because he went behind that rock and is now hidden from me?

Nope but it doesn't matter. You are expecting him to be behind the rock. If he is where you expect him to be then he's not really hiding from you.

 

[FrogReaver]

Basically being unseen and and unheard is the minimum requirement for tryin to hide. It's not the only requirements.

 

[Jester David]

You don't actually have to "houserule" for this. Hidden means they don't know exactly where you are; it doesn't mean they forget you exist. In this example, the character knows the halfling went behind the rock. They don't know where exactly behind the rock the halfling is, or even if he's still there (there might be a trapdoor, he teleported, whatever), but they could move around the rock to see. Once the halfling is within line-of-sight, he is no longer hidden from the character.

Right. Being hidden means they don't know what space you're in. But if the cover only provides cover for a single space, then it's pretty obvious where they are and you can't really hide.
There's a difference between having full cover and being hidden. Full cover has its own benefits (such as not being able to be directly targeted by most attacks). There's a big difference from a creature not being able to see or detect you (not having line of sight) and you being hidden.

The halfling rogue ducking behind a five-foot-cubed boulder or behind the column isn't hidden. They just can't be seen. The enemy knows they're there, and knows where they are. The halfling can't just hide and get the benefits of Sneak Attack because the enemy knows what direction to guard from. They know the attack is coming and it's not a surprise.
They're not an infant, they have object permanence, and aren't going to assume an enemy teleported away because it dropped out of line of sight for literally 6 seconds.

If the halfling can teleport or use a hidden trapdoor then that does change the situation. It gets them away. But if the wizard teleports away they're not automatically hidden.

There are of course exceptions. Which is why the rules are written the way they are.
Again, if the rogue uses magical boots to teleport, then maybe the DM could rule they could hide. Or in a woodland setting where you're not ducking behind the one piece of cover but running through the underbrush and there's no way of knowing what direction you're coming from.
Or the halfling rogue could duck behind the pillar and climb up the pillar. I'd allow that to count as being hidden if the attack comes from several feet above where it's expected (and the rogue makes the Athletics and Stealth checks).

 

[Hriston]

A character is in a exitless room with a halfling and a Medium-size rock. The halfling puts the rock between itself and the character and tries to hide. In my game, the halfling will fail, EVEN if the character is out of direct line of sight, because the character can see where the halfling went, and it has no exit.

Yeah, but what if it was a large-size rock? Wouldn't that be an appropriate circumstance due to uncertainty about which 5 foot square the halfling is in?

It takes a full round for the character to drop their focus by either losing attention or beginning to doubt that the halfling is still there. Once that doubt kicks in, the halfling is officially hidden.

This seems to fall under distraction, which is a call the DM can make, but I don't think it works for creatures that aren't already hidden.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah, but what if it was a large-size rock? Wouldn't that be an appropriate circumstance due to uncertainty about which 5 foot square the halfling is in?

Depends on how large you are talking. A 10ft by 10ft boulder doesn't really change anything in my opinion.

 

[Hriston]

The big one to me is "what direction are the opponents are facing?" and the related "what are the opponents looking at?"

It's easy to forget that in 3e and 4e, hiding was very much more limited. You had to remain under cover and concealment, and were automatically detected if you ended your turn in cover.
So you had situations where you were hidden and undetected when you ran out in front of guards but dashed between pillars. But you couldn't slowly sneak up behind someone.

Because there's some rules flexibility, you have situations where you can quietly stealth up behind the guard and knock them out. Or shadow someone for a distance, ducking to the side whenever they start to turn around.

Don't you have to be hidden first though? This doesn't work if there's no appropriate hiding place from which to sneak up behind the guard. Shadowing won't work if your quarry is already aware of you. I don't think distraction by itself is an appropriate circumstance for hiding.

 

[kalil]

From a "contribution in combat" point of view the rogue kinda needs to be able to hide most turns. A more restrictive interpretation of the stealth rules leaves the rogue significantly behind the curve in combat and thus imho makes the game less fun for everyone. I would err in the direction of letting everyone be awesome.

 

[FrogReaver]

From a "contribution in combat" point of view the rogue kinda needs to be able to hide most turns. A more restrictive interpretation of the stealth rules leaves the rogue significantly behind the curve in combat and thus imho makes the game less fun for everyone. I would err in the direction of letting everyone be awesome.

Ummmm no just no. The only things a rogue doesn't compete well with are GWM and SS builds. That said rogues do need their sneak attack most every turn. But advantage... no just no.