D&D 5E [ToA] Heat & Heavy (armor)

Oofta

Legend
That goes back to the specific rules/mechanics that are an exception. There is an explicit mechanical rule that directly addresses that (the unarmored combat feature). Just like any other specific rule that overrides realism. The difference is that the specific rules of exceptions we have in a fantasy game do not mean every part of realism is ignored, only those expressly called out in that rule. That's why those specific rules that override realism are specific.

Saying we should ignore other unrelated aspects of realism because there's rule here or there that override realism is a fundamentally flawed argument. Not only is it a horrible slipperly slope, but it directly conflicts with the design of how fantastical abilities are designed (very clearly and explicitly telling us exactly how the rules of a specific reality are overridden as opposed to be vague generalities).

Yet there is no specific rule that says (sans adequate water) you suffer penalty in hot climates, or that you can't swim.

This whole thread seems to revolve around "how much can we nerf PCs who rely on relatively realistic armor for protection by adding in new house rules".

If you're going to add rules to penalize heavy armor wearers, then add rules to penalize PJ wearers. Don't add rules to penalize heavy armor wearers and there's no need to penalize people wearing only their underoos.
 

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Gardens & Goblins

First Post
Running a series of timed one-shots at the moment, and after the initial friction as the paradigm shifted, players have become accustomed to carrying their heavier armour on their mounts.

Well, all save the dwarf, who insisted on wearing their full plate in scorching desert heat... ..passing every Con save, with increasing modifiers. We ended up narrating the heated haze that surrounded his scalding-hot armour, and the cloud of sweaty mist that he carried with him. Not that he minded - he was utterly drunk the whole journey.

For rules, we used the Sandstorm supplement for 3E, which asks players to make saves, with a penalty that accumulates with each required save.

In retrospect, I'd stream line things to call for a Con save DC 10/15/20 for Hot/Sever/Extreme heat conditions - imposing Disadvantage for Heavy Armour users and upping the save DC by 1 every hour/ten minutes/minute in future.
 

Oofta

Legend
I thought it would be interesting to do a quick google search for "armor in the desert". Because, as always seems to be the case, people make a lot of assumptions.

The result? People in armor wore white cloth over their armor and drank a lot of water.

Which actually matches my experience (somewhat) with hiking in the desert. It may look odd that I wear a hat and long sleeve shirt, but it's frequently better. It's one of the reasons long flowing robes are so common in the middle east.

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/2312/how-did-medieval-armies-survive-the-use-of-mail-armor-in-the-deserts-of-the-midd

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4mcq1f/how_did_heavily_armored_knights_handle_the_heat/

https://www.quora.com/How-could-medieval-knights-wear-full-plate-armor-in-middle-east-during-crusades
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
This whole thread seems to revolve around "how much can we nerf PCs who rely on relatively realistic armor for protection by adding in new house rules".
I think it's an attitude that got ingrained back in the day when being able to wear armor was a potent class feature. You got your full DEX bonus in plate back then, and not only did magic armor and shields stack, magic armor weighed nothing.
Plus it was just SOP to fix something too powerful by heaping arbitrary consequences it, or just making it go away. Thus beholder central eyes, rust monsters and disenchanters, to name just a few...
 
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Gardens & Goblins

First Post
I thought it would be interesting to do a quick google search for "armor in the desert". Because, as always seems to be the case, people make a lot of assumptions.

The result? People in armor wore white cloth over their armor and drank a lot of water.

Which actually matches my experience (somewhat) with hiking in the desert. It may look odd that I wear a hat and long sleeve shirt, but it's frequently better. It's one of the reasons long flowing robes are so common in the middle east.

https://history.stackexchange.com/q...-use-of-mail-armor-in-the-deserts-of-the-midd

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistori..._did_heavily_armored_knights_handle_the_heat/

https://www.quora.com/How-could-med...ll-plate-armor-in-middle-east-during-crusades

It's also important to point out that most, if not all of the responses, were regarding chain/ringmail armour and a surcoat, rather than full plate - and excellent physical conditioning is something I hope we can assume on those knight's behalf!

Simply standing under a blazing sun shouldn't pose much of a threat to a heavily armoured adventure. Strenuous physical activity should prove to be harder, though as a character can, at least according to the rules without DM arbitration, perform a back-flip in something like plate armour as readily as if they were naked, perhaps this is a moot point. Combating the stress of marching/fighting hot environments seems to be a common theme with the articles scattered around good 'ole Google Scholar, and common sense tells us that its going to present more of a challenge to march/operate in such conditions when encased in metal plates than otherwise.

In the Sandstorm desert adventure guide, things really (incoming pun) heat up (pun deployed) around the 111 Fahrenheit/44 Celsius mark, and for our games at least, such environments are very rare outside of an actual Hollywood-inspired blazing desert. And here, dealing with the heat, the need for water and the night is all part of the fun.

So, with all these things considered, and heavily ripping of the Sandstorm book, I'd hand-wave any checks outside the extreme heat conditions. Sandstorm introduced a level of granularity by imposing subdual damage on those that failed a Con save after a time, and eventually, in the unearthly high temperature conditions, lethal damage.

Lacking subual damage and with 5E favouring simple though sometimes chunky mechanical systems, I'd set a straight Con save depending on the temperature, with heavy armour users making the check at disadvantage unless they were dressed/outfitted in 'Desert Clothing'. Those in other armours can make the check as per normal, with advantage if they have 'Desert Clothing'. Desert Clothing being a catch-all term for the various techniques employed by folks investing some resources into combating high temperatures. Seems simple enough.
 

Gardens & Goblins

First Post
As for the penaltiy of failing a save? Disadvantage on such saves in the future, unless the character consumes a pint of water/waterskin of water.

Failing the the save twice would impose the edit: Exhaustion condition until the character took a Short Rest in cool conditions or consumed another pint/waterskin's worth of water.

The intent being that characters operating under a blazing sun can still function at the expense of their water reserves. When said reserves run dry, things start looking bleak.
 
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Gardens & Goblins

First Post
Put yourself inside a metal box outside in the blazing sun, even if you're not doing anything.

Actually, don't to that. I don't want to be responsible for you killing yourself.

lol yes! I should include the caveat, '..in our table's game of D&D, unless they really want to simulate the survival aspect of the game'.

Standing for long enough should result in sweaty, irritable guards though I'd hope they'd be provided with access to water and some form of shade!
 

Oofta

Legend
It's also important to point out that most, if not all of the responses, were regarding chain/ringmail armour and a surcoat, rather than full plate - and excellent physical conditioning is something I hope we can assume on those knight's behalf!

I would hope we could assume adventurers are in good condition as well. But, the link I pointed to were mainly for the crusades and from before plate armor was a thing. In addition chain is still heavy armor so would still apply from a game perspective.

So people saying PCs wearing any heavy armor in the heat should be dead do not seem to be basing it on real world analogues.

But I'll still stick with the "D&D is so unrealistic in so many ways (e.g. swords bouncing off a barbarians pecks because they're "tough"), why is it important to be realistic in this one aspect?"
 

CapnZapp

Legend
But you're asking WotC to add a rule that does exactly that.
First off, I'm not asking anyone to do anything. Except answering the question "do you think it'll be in the book".

Secondly, didn't you read the passage where I was okay with Potions of Not Being Bothered In Heavy Armor? (or whatever)

If you don't want to use such a rule, fine. I specifically said I'm okay with it being optional :)
 

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