D&D 5E Mike Mearls: Ranged Paladin doesn't break anything

[lowkey13]

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[Staffan]

2. Ranged paladins, ho! (For home games of course. Not AL) What character concepts immediately jump to mind? I have some--

In 3e Eberron, the favored weapon of the Silver Flame faith (the religion mostly dedicated to goodness and battling evil, as opposed to just being good because the thing you represent is good) is the longbow. That in turn was a result of a rules quirk: the main supernatural evil in Eberron are rakshasa, who are highly resistant to damage that does not come from a holy piercing weapon (that in turn was a revamp of their vulnerability to blessed crossbow bolts in AD&D). So Silver Flame paladins and clerics often spend a lot of time on archery practice.

So that's something that'd be cool to play: a Silver Flame paladin. Also, because the Silver Flame is cool.

 

[MrHotter]

If a player wanted to be a ranged Paladin I would be happy to help them house rule some class changes.

The simple change would be to add the archery fighting style and remove heavy armor as a proficiency. Any ability or spell that lists 'melee weapon attack' would be replaced with 'ranged weapon attack'.

I would not want them to just add ranged to all their melee abilities. That's just what players want to do when they are just trying to add more power without wanting to give anything up.

 

[Mistwell]

WHY DOES 'MELEE WEAPON ATTACK' AND 'ATTACK WITH A MELEE WEAPON' MEAN TWO DIFFERENT THINGS?? WHY GOD, WHY!?!

To vex you.

And me.

Is it working? It worked for me. I'm vexed.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Mistwell]

Did you know that Mike Mearls carries a bag of rats with him to make sure that he always has Vex active?

Indeed, and you can buy one too!

 

[Saeviomagy]

If a player wanted to be a ranged Paladin I would be happy to help them house rule some class changes.

The simple change would be to add the archery fighting style and remove heavy armor as a proficiency. Any ability or spell that lists 'melee weapon attack' would be replaced with 'ranged weapon attack'.

I would not want them to just add ranged to all their melee abilities. That's just what players want to do when they are just trying to add more power without wanting to give anything up.

You think that you are removing something from the character when you do this, but you're actually not. The armor thing is totally irrelevant: the dex based character may as well not have heavy armor proficiency for all that they use it. Similarly with the melee weapon vs ranged weapon. It's not common to actually get pinned in melee, and such a character still has melee weapons they can use. The fact they can't smite isn't that relevant: typically by the time the character is pinned, they've already used whatever resources they were going to dedicate to the fight.

Also fwiw, you can already make a ranged paladin. Dex based paladins do just fine (except for the bizarre multiclassing restrictions 5e has). Ensnaring strike is a 1st level spell that affects your next weapon attack (melee or ranged) and scales (very effectively) by slot level. The only real problem is that you're stuck being a green knight if you want this specific option.

Otherwise you're 'stuck' with branding smite (2nd level) and banishing smite (5th) if you want a vengeance or devotion paladin and are committed to never entering melee. One could argue that the base paladin abilities of the other oaths are more effective for a range paladin though.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That in turn was a result of a rules quirk: the main supernatural evil in Eberron are rakshasa, who are highly resistant to damage that does not come from a holy piercing weapon (that in turn was a revamp of their vulnerability to blessed crossbow bolts in AD&D). So Silver Flame paladins and clerics often spend a lot of time on archery practice.

The Silver Flame paladins couldn't've stayed all Knightly and used Lances? They're piercing.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I'm pretty sure sage advice confirmed precisely the opposite: You can't smite when throwing a javelin, but you can smite when clubbing someone with the butt of your crossbow.

That's my reading. You can't smite with a javelin or a dart or an arrow. You can smite with a bow but only if you hit someone with it instead of using it to launch an arrow. You can smite with a punch (unarmed attack) and a beer mug (improvised melee weapon).

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

If a player wanted to be a ranged Paladin I would be happy to help them house rule some class changes.

The simple change would be to add the archery fighting style and remove heavy armor as a proficiency. Any ability or spell that lists 'melee weapon attack' would be replaced with 'ranged weapon attack'.

I would not want them to just add ranged to all their melee abilities. That's just what players want to do when they are just trying to add more power without wanting to give anything up.

The ability to apply abilities and spells that usually require melee, at range is a pretty major bonus: Sounds like the core abilities of a new subclass.

The Silver Flame paladins couldn't've stayed all Knightly and used Lances? They're piercing.

There are a lot more peasants in Eberron than Paladins.

That's my reading. You can't smite with a javelin or a dart or an arrow. You can smite with a bow but only if you hit someone with it instead of using it to launch an arrow. You can smite with a punch (unarmed attack) and a beer mug (improvised melee weapon).

Sort of. There are discussions as to whether an improvised weapon actually counts as a weapon or not, but they are best left alone.