D&D 5E Charisma- Good ability ... or OMNIVOROUS DESTROYER OF D&D?

[lowkey13]

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[Gardens & Goblins]

Am I overcomplicating things / in danger of suffering the wrath of our dashing Charisma overlords if I just went with:

Physical stat - how physical you are
Smart stat - how smart you are
Bastard stat - how much of a bastard you are

For example, Bards would be low P, medium S and super high B. Strangely, so would most paladins at our table.

 

[Dausuul]

I would quibble with this list somewhat (for example, charisma is also important to Paladins).

It's important, but it's not at all their primary stat. Paladins are smite machines first and foremost, and smiting requires Strength. Charisma is to paladins as Wisdom is to monks, or Constitution is to just about everybody.

But just because dexterity is the worst offender, doesn't mean we should be aware of the creeping awfulness of charisma.

Still not seeing it. If I were going to pick a "next most overpowered" stat on that list after Dex, it would be either Wisdom or Constitution. Wisdom is a major saving throw and it drives the most important skill in the game. Constitution is also a major save, it's vital to casters for Concentration checks, and everyone needs more hit points.

Charisma is a minor save, and although the social skills are highly useful, the three of them together are not a match for Perception. And social skills are the only thing Charisma does for you if it isn't a class stat.

After years of languishing as everybody's favorite dump stat, Charisma has finally emerged to take its rightful place among the six. Obviously that means it has improved relative to the other stats! It doesn't, however, mean that it's overpowered in an absolute sense.

 

[lowkey13]

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[MechaTarrasque]

It seems like when the mystic and the artificer are official, then the value of int will rise. Especially if they follow through and make fighter and monk subclasses that draw from the mystic. That would mean that fighter and rogue would each have 2 int using subclasses and monk would have 1. Through a mystic feat in there and potentially int is seeing a lot more use.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I agree that Charisma has gone overboard.

Sorcerers should move to Constitution, their power is based on the strength of their body able to absorb the rigors of spellcasting.

Paladins should move to Strength or Wisdom, it breaks things up.

Warlocks should be moved to Intelligence, if your not smart your not going to last long while making deals with strange eldritch beings that want to eventually eat your face.

There are 6 ability scores and 12 classes, each ability score should have two classes focused on it, one being a primary caster and the other being a secondary caster or non-caster.

As it is right now, especially with all the best skills being under Charisma it has becomes too weighted.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I will make controversial suggestion. Sorcerers are supposed to magical, but they don't have any special senses for magic or anything like free detect magic, and it is fairly common in literature about someone who discovers they are magical suddenly "feels" magic. There is a stat for people who "feel" things, whether it is a druid "feeling" the natural flow of the world, or the cleric "feeling" the will of his/her god. Make the sorcerer a wisdom casters, and they can "feel" the flow of magic in the world.

 

[Lanefan]

I will make controversial suggestion. Sorcerers are supposed to magical, but they don't have any special senses for magic or anything like free detect magic, and it is fairly common in literature about someone who discovers they are magical suddenly "feels" magic. There is a stat for people who "feel" things, whether it is a druid "feeling" the natural flow of the world, or the cleric "feeling" the will of his/her god. Make the sorcerer a wisdom casters, and they can "feel" the flow of magic in the world.

Doesn't that risk overcooking Wisdom, thus simply moving the issue from one stat to another?

If Charisma is too powerful (open to debate on this) and Intelligence is too weak (yeah, I can see this one), the simple solution would be to find some thing(s) that would make sense to move from Cha to Int. One that leaps to mind is that not all persuasion necessarily comes from Charisma - one of Bluff or Diplomacy, for example, could easily be refluffed (rebluffed?) to go under Intelligence based on how erudite and well-spoken you are. And as someone else noted, moving one of Warlock or Sorcerer to being an Int-based class would also be easy.

Lan-"meanwhile, in 1e I'm trying to find things to move into Charisma to make it more relevant"-efan

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Use actual polls kthnx

 

[TwoSix]

I will make controversial suggestion. Sorcerers are supposed to magical, but they don't have any special senses for magic or anything like free detect magic, and it is fairly common in literature about someone who discovers they are magical suddenly "feels" magic. There is a stat for people who "feel" things, whether it is a druid "feeling" the natural flow of the world, or the cleric "feeling" the will of his/her god. Make the sorcerer a wisdom casters, and they can "feel" the flow of magic in the world.

I'll go further. We have 6 caster classes, 2 types of magic (arcane and divine), and 3 casting stats. How about:

Wizard - Arcane, Int
Sorcerer - Arcane, Wis
Bard - Arcane, Cha
Warlock - Divine, Int
Druid - Divine, Wis
Cleric - Divine, Cha