D&D 5E Reliable Talent. What the what?

[5ekyu]

No. A 1st years engineering major doesn't apply for a senior developer position at Google and expect to get the job. Real life people know not to take on tasks they can't handle. Just like day 1 adventurers don't take on ancient red dragons.

What I don't do is tell my players, "Wait! Don't go there; that's a 16th level adventure." But if the lunatic cobblers go off hunting dragons, I'm not going stop them...or go easy on them.

Have you encountered many GMs who do make that statement of dont go there its blah blah level? How often?

I havent. Nor have i seen it advocated here.

So, is it a straw man or something you actually encounter enough you feel the need to point out your difference from cuz being so common you might be mistaken to be one?

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[redrick]

Quite simply, actually.

In my megadungeon /wilderness sandbox, I planned the basic level of all the adventure sites and levels of the megadungeon before the players entered play (I didn't flesh them out, but I did assign them a level range). After that, it's the players' decision to decide if their 1st level character can take on the ancient red dragon or if they should find a more level-appropriate adventure.

In fact one groups of 2nd level character did venture into the red dragon's den. They rolled well (as per the tables in OD&D Monster's and Treasure) and the dragon was fast asleep when they arrived. They rolled well on their Stealth chekcs, didn't wake the dragon, and snuck out with enough treasure for them to reach 3rd level after a single session. The next session they went back and were burned to death by dragonfire.

Meanwhile, the second group was busy killing rats and looking for the local constable's body in the Old Sewers, reaching 2nd level after four sessions of play, while their rival adventuring party, who find themselves burned to death, has to start again from 1st level.

Risk and reward, folk. Risk and reward.

What if your 7th level party decided to spend a number of sessions in a designated "level 1" part of the dungeon, because there was something there that interested the players or the characters? Would you run them through a dungeon full of groups of 1d4 kobolds and crude snares and pit traps, or would you make adjustments to keep things entertaining? Would you expect the players to realize, "oh wait, this is a boring dungeon, let's clear out to something higher level that will be more fun," (A total meta-game. In-character, I prefer the deathmatches that grant me guaranteed victory.) Do you stop play and say, "Guys, just so you know, this is a level 1 dungeon and it's not going to get harder"?

One of the beauties of an RPG is that it's not a computer game. You don't have to pre-design every room, every creature, every encounter. You, the DM, adapt the game based on the actions of the players, to keep things interesting. Every group will have a different idea of how elastic their DM's game will be. Does the DM adjust encounters on the fly to maintain an optimal challenge? Is the key always in the third place the players look? Or does the DM allow the PCs to struggle, get frustrated and run into unfair encounters? But even in the case of the latter, the DM is still, at some point or another, making choices based on what will be the most fun at the table. And if they aren't? Honestly, that game would probably be boring as hell.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Same, but I'm under no illusion that the D&D hobby is prepped by ONLY DM's who pre-plan EVERYTHING in their world like you do for your sandbox megadungeon/wilderness sandbox. Sometimes PCs create their own challenges and DM's are forced to create encounters based on guidelines, certainly published adventurers are prepared on a level-progressive storyline approach.
And this then highlights that meta-gaming is very much part of the hobby. To categorically state that meta-gaming is abhorrent in role-playing is but a bold-face lie or the person making such claim is under some self-delusion (a failed save by 5 or more).

'lunatic cobblers' I like.

I never stated metagaming was abhorrent to the hobby, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else had. I am merely pointing out that is it not a necessary component of the hobby. One can roleplay in a meaningful way with and without metagaming. It's like zombies. Some tables love them, others hardly use them as all. It all depends on the table, the players, and the DM.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Have you encountered many GMs who do make that statement of dont go there its blah blah level? How often?

I havent. Nor have i seen it advocated here.

So, is it a straw man or something you actually encounter enough you feel the need to point out your difference from cuz being so common you might be mistaken to be one?

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I have absolutely no idea. I have never played a roleplaying game. I have only ever been the DM/GM.

 

[5ekyu]

I have absolutely no idea. I have never played a roleplaying game. I have only ever been the DM/GM.

Gotcha... So "What I don't do is tell my players, "Wait! Don't go there; that's a 16th level adventure."" Is just pre-clarification in case this thong you dont do happens to show up and claim you?

Ok sure.

I would think the list of things you dont do and others are not discusding is actually a lot,longer than that, but its a good start... So, Well Done.

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[WayOfTheFourElements]

Gotcha... So "What I don't do is tell my players, "Wait! Don't go there; that's a 16th level adventure."" Is just pre-clarification in case this thong you dont do happens to show up and claim you?

Ok sure.

I would think the list of things you dont do and others are not discusding is actually a lot,longer than that, but its a good start... So, Well Done.

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I don't see the need for hostility or mockery. There was a guy being a little hostile to you a while back. I'm not him.

 

[5ekyu]

FWIW (which ought to be little) i have long ran games where i consider the PCs as the stars of the show. I detail and develop much of the capaign to be tailored to their characters and their backstories so as to make the driving story elements shown in the campaign and the characters running through then not random coincidence but interrelated elements.

Its certainly not for everyone but i find those kinds of tie-ins help the players i run for enjoy the games.

Whether someone chooses to attach some label to that they find perjorative or call it anti roleplaying... Not my problem

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[WayOfTheFourElements]

What if your 7th level party decided to spend a number of sessions in a designated "level 1" part of the dungeon, because there was something there that interested the players or the characters? Would you run them through a dungeon full of groups of 1d4 kobolds and crude snares and pit traps, or would you make adjustments to keep things entertaining? Would you expect the players to realize, "oh wait, this is a boring dungeon, let's clear out to something higher level that will be more fun," (A total meta-game. In-character, I prefer the deathmatches that grant me guaranteed victory.) Do you stop play and say, "Guys, just so you know, this is a level 1 dungeon and it's not going to get harder"?

One of the beauties of an RPG is that it's not a computer game. You don't have to pre-design every room, every creature, every encounter. You, the DM, adapt the game based on the actions of the players, to keep things interesting. Every group will have a different idea of how elastic their DM's game will be. Does the DM adjust encounters on the fly to maintain an optimal challenge? Is the key always in the third place the players look? Or does the DM allow the PCs to struggle, get frustrated and run into unfair encounters? But even in the case of the latter, the DM is still, at some point or another, making choices based on what will be the most fun at the table. And if they aren't? Honestly, that game would probably be boring as hell.

OK. Let's have some fun.

7th level party decided to spend a number of sessions in a designated "level 1" part of the dungeon: Great. Group A of 7th level characters explores Weak-A** Kolbold lLand. I have noo problem with it. They (practically) wasted their play session fighting kobolds, while the rival groups B and C, who play on different days of the week, gain more experience faster and continue to take all the good treasure before Group A is able to find it.

Would you make adjustments to keep things entertaining? Nope. And It's a non-issue. Me players prefer to take on higher level threats and claim the better treasure so group B and C can't get it to first. That isn't saying can't be good treasure on a low level dungeon or absolutely no treasure in a higher level dungeon, just that higher level dungeons have better treasure because no one's cleared them out yet decades ago.

One of the beauties of an RPG is that it's not a computer game. You don't have to pre-design every room, every creature, every encounter. Actually, I do. To keep any semblance of fairness when DMing for multiple PC adventuring groups in the same world, that world must react the same way no matter which groups enters in a given adventure site, whether they are at 2nd or 19th level.

Does the DM adjust encounters on the fly to maintain an optimal challenge? I say no. Moreover, it's a non-issue. Because I run multiple rival groups in the same world, the primary challenge is not against the monsters, but to stay ahead of the other groups in terms of level, power, and repute (or infamy).

Is the key always in the third place the players look? No.

Or does the DM allow the PCs to struggle, get frustrated and run into unfair encounters? Yes

And if they aren't [having fun]? They can join a different game. Mine isn't meant to satisfy everyone's taste. I've just been lucky to find 19 like-minded players who enjoy the same things I do.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

FWIW (which ought to be little) i have long ran games where i consider the PCs as the stars of the show. I detail and develop much of the capaign to be tailored to their characters and their backstories so as to make the driving story elements shown in the campaign and the characters running through then not random coincidence but interrelated elements.

Its certainly not for everyone but i find those kinds of tie-ins help the players i run for enjoy the games.

Whether someone chooses to attach some label to that they find perjorative or call it anti roleplaying... Not my problem

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In which case they would be silly. The term roleplaying is applied to anything from RPGs and LARPS to ESL games and pillow talk.

 

[BookBarbarian]

the term roleplaying is applied to anything from RPGs, LARPS, ESL games, and pillow talk.

Blurring the lines between the items on that list can result in some truly interesting experiences.