D&D 5E D&D Beyond: Raven Queen

[doctorbadwolf]

She's the most well-known personage from the Shadowfell plane. As they wanted to have "lords" of the Shadowfell just like they have "lords" of the Feywild (which are the Archfey) they had to start somewhere. So they took quite possibly the most popular divine figure from 4E's setting and are now keeping her identity active in the history of the game.

Do they need to change things a bit so that she can still apply to other settings in which she is not an actual god? Sure. But so what? I'm sure all the Greyhawk players were questioning all that weird Dawn War fluff that got given to Pelor when he showed up as a god in Nerath. Or how Moradin's stories are all different in all the different settings that have used the dwarven pantheon.

We all saw Asmodeus become a god in 4E and we got over it. I think we can handle the Raven Queen not being a god in non-Nerath settings and get over that too. Because at least we still get to use her as a character in the game rather than completely wipe away her entire existence because we aren't playing 4E anymore.

The needed to change her place in settings that already have a God of Death, they didn’t need to change her fundamental nature and persona.

Asmodeus became a god, and literally nothing else about him changed. He was absolutely 100% still Asmodeus. So much so that if you play it as him having become a god very recently, as they did in 4e FR and Eberron, it isn’t disruptive at all.

Making RQ a lesser deity in settings with established gods of death would have worked much better, but more than that, she can be an Archfey (whether literally or Shadowfel equivalent) without reinventing who she is as an entity.

If you have a god is summer and one of Winter, Titania and Mabd don’t suddenly need to be changed. There can be a Fey Lady of Death that has nothing to do with the setting’s god of Death, is an ally, is an opponent who seeks out adventurers to help her stop his cults and champions, etc. She can have a seat of power that is outside the god’s grasp, perhaps given to her by gods that oppose the god of death, or stolen by her from him, where from she keeps she watches over what she isn’t strong enough to control, and sends her agents to stop the cultists of Nerull, hunt down necromancers and intelligent undead, etc.

In FR she would be an ally of Kelemvor, and a thorn in the side of Shar, who hates that she has escaped her for so long.

There are a hundred ways to handle such a character that don’t require reinventing her just to change her place in the world.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

"She might find that elements of the soul's life are fascinating and she wants to watch them and study them, and maybe send that soul back in an endless cycle of reliving the tragedy of its life again and again and again."

This part jumps out at me, because it sounds a lot like the fate of the Darklords in the Domains of Dread. What if the Raven Queen created the Dark Powers to capture these fascinating souls, which in turn created the Domains of Dread to house them? After all, the setting is called Ravenloft...

Over on his blog Keith Baker floated the idea of treating the archfey of Eberron as reliving the stories that define them in the tales of the mortal world. What if the Raven Queen was a former archfey who escaped a similar fate by inflicting it on the people now known as the Darklords?

Only problem is that I'm not sure the Raven Queen could be Lawful Neutral (as noted in the DMG) if she interferes with the proper fate of souls and is responsible for the suffering of innocents pulled into the Domains of Dread. Although maybe she no longer has control over the Dark Powers, if she has anything to do with them at all.

 

[gyor]

"She might find that elements of the soul's life are fascinating and she wants to watch them and study them, and maybe send that soul back in an endless cycle of reliving the tragedy of its life again and again and again."

This part jumps out at me, because it sounds a lot like the Domains of Dread. What if the Raven Queen created the Dark Powers, which in turn created the Domains of Dread? After all, the setting is called Ravenloft...

Over on his blog Keith Baker floated the idea of treating the archfey of Eberron as reliving the stories that define them in the tales of the mortal world. What if the Raven Queen was a former archfey who escaped a similar fate by inflicting it on the people now known as the Darklords?

Only problem is that I'm not sure the Raven Queen could be Lawful Neutral (as noted in the DMG) if she interferes with the proper fate of souls and is responsible for the suffering of innocents pulled into the Domains of Dread.

That depends on if it's in the service of a higher law, just as constitutional law trumps regular legislative law.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

"She might find that elements of the soul's life are fascinating and she wants to watch them and study them, and maybe send that soul back in an endless cycle of reliving the tragedy of its life again and again and again."

This part jumps out at me, because it sounds a lot like the fate of the Darklords in the Domains of Dread. What if the Raven Queen created the Dark Powers to capture these fascinating souls, which in turn created the Domains of Dread to house them? After all, the setting is called Ravenloft...

Over on his blog Keith Baker floated the idea of treating the archfey of Eberron as reliving the stories that define them in the tales of the mortal world. What if the Raven Queen was a former archfey who escaped a similar fate by inflicting it on the people now known as the Darklords?

Only problem is that I'm not sure the Raven Queen could be Lawful Neutral (as noted in the DMG) if she interferes with the proper fate of souls and is responsible for the suffering of innocents pulled into the Domains of Dread. Although maybe she no longer has control over the Dark Powers, if she has anything to do with them at all.

It occurs to me that the destiny part of her 4e portfolio might lean her toward LN (one could easily think of the "laws of destiny"), and if that is no longer in her portfolio (or like Lolth, she basically handed it off), her alignment might have changed.

 

[Charlaquin]

Only problem is that I'm not sure the Raven Queen could be Lawful Neutral (as noted in the DMG) if she interferes with the proper fate of souls and is responsible for the suffering of innocents pulled into the Domains of Dread. Although maybe she no longer has control over the Dark Powers, if she has anything to do with them at all.

Not necessarily a problem at all, as that table in the DMG is referring to the Dawn War Pantheon, in which she plays a very different role than what Mearls presented here. He even says at the end that (in this iteration) she is neither a force of law nor chaos, but something else. I would peg this Raven Queen as True Neutral, as opposed to her Lawful Neutral status in Nentir Vale (or Unaligned using 4e’s 5-alignment system). They really seem to me to be two completely different characters that just happen to share a name. Which I’m fine with, particularly since they acknowledge in this video that she’s very different in Nentir Vale.

 

[Azzy]

Why even bring her back if it’s just to completely reinvent her?

The same could be said about different things from edition to edition. It's very annoying when they're not consistent with the lore.

 

[gyor]

I hope so, too, though I’m not sure what could fix it other than direct contradiction of what Mike said.

Honestly I'd settle for more clarity and learning how this plays out in the Forgotten Realms where the Raven Queen has never been a player, where the Shadar Kai in my opinion where far more interesting then they ever were in Nerath/Nentir Vale setting, because they served a far more diverse set of Gods and there were different groups of Shadar Kai, they weren't all servants of the Raven Queen.

Some worshipped Shar and served Netheril, some were rogue, almost feral and served themselves, and others sought community and freedom and served a more diverse set of masters. But none served the Raven Queen.

The Vryloka and the Red Witch add further complications because the Red Witch is said to either be a servant of the Raven Queen or a avatar of the Raven Queen, will that be shown as part of the Raven Queen's story?

 

[Ketser]

Raven Queen is a popular entity/deity and its no wonder that the devs are looking for a way to bring it into the damn mess that is the general D&D cosmology/Great Wheel stuff and settings in general. The problem is that most of the settings have already their own gods of death and a bunch of lesser/minor/irrevelant deities that have death in some way in their portfolio. On the other hand they have the Shadowfell that has less preexisting lore than others and as such more room to maneuver and add stuff.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Raven Queen is a popular entity/deity and its no wonder that the devs are looking for a way to bring it into the damn mess that is the general D&D cosmology/Great Wheel stuff and settings in general. The problem is that most of the settings have already their own gods of death and a bunch of lesser/minor/irrevelant deities that have death in some way in their portfolio. On the other hand they have the Shadowfell that has less preexisting lore than others and as such more room to maneuver and add stuff.

Sure, and I use her as an Archfey in my Eberron game (and the Shadowfel is part of Thelanis in my Eberron) and also in my homebrew campaign. That part is fine. It’s reinventing her motivations, persona, etc that is nonsensical to me. Archfey, goddess, Shadowfel Power, whatever, she should be the same fundamental character.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The same could be said about different things from edition to edition. It's very annoying when they're not consistent with the lore.

I don’t care if they make Asmodeus a god, or changing the overarching cosmology. I care about characters, nations, worlds, organizations, etc retaining heir fundemental character. Asmodeus shouldn’t suddenly become honest, or act very differently. He’s a god in 4e, but he is otherwise precisely the same character.