D&D 5E So Why is 5E So Popular?

[Parmandur]

But... 3e and 4e had the same marketing budget, the same attempts at nostalgia, the same brand appeal, the same art budget, and same ability to be stocked in physical stores.
And while the long public beta was nice, the impact of that is likely only felt for a year or so.

So why is 5e so much bigger than 3e and 4e. Or even 3e & 4e combined.

Well, one big difference is the lack of bloat releases: four years of release, and we are coming up on the fourth supplement book: 4E had every release out by now, a sight more than four. Those overactive release schedules were a major turnoff for buying books, at least for me.

 

[Wulffolk]

My initial impression of Pathfinder 2e leads me to believe that 5e's success is about to slow down quite a bit. There are quite a few D&D players that are not happy with the slow release schedule of 5e, and would prefer more crunch. Pathfinder delivers more crunch. In addition to a new edition Pathfinder has a new video game coming out that looks very impressive, while D&D has nothing modern or exciting coming in the near future.

The one thing that D&D has going for it is brand recognition. The public knows what D&D is. They generally do not know what Pathfinder is. Just like most people order a Coke to drink when they want a cola, even if they prefer Pepsi.

I think that Paizo waited just long enough to observe the primary critiques of 5e so that they can release a Pathfinder 2e that is "better" than 5e. So far I have liked what I have read about it. I would not be surprised if Pathfinder 2e steals a significant chunk of the RPG community veterans away from D&D, while D&D continues to draw newer players into the hobby.

 

[Parmandur]

My initial impression of Pathfinder 2e leads me to believe that 5e's success is about to slow down quite a bit. There are quite a few D&D players that are not happy with the slow release schedule of 5e, and would prefer more crunch. Pathfinder delivers more crunch. In addition to a new edition Pathfinder has a new video game coming out that looks very impressive, while D&D has nothing modern or exciting coming in the near future.

The one thing that D&D has going for it is brand recognition. The public knows what D&D is. They generally do not know what Pathfinder is. Just like most people order a Coke to drink when they want a cola, even if they prefer Pepsi.

I think that Paizo waited just long enough to observe the primary critiques of 5e so that they can release a Pathfinder 2e that is "better" than 5e. So far I have liked what I have read about it. I would not be surprised if Pathfinder 2e steals a significant chunk of the RPG community veterans away from D&D, while D&D continues to draw newer players into the hobby.

Doubtful; PF2 looks more to be a disaster in the making, splitting their pre-existing fanbase, without having learned the lessons of 5E. One of the most important lessons being the slow release schedule.

 

[Morrus]

Doubtful; PF2 looks more to be a disaster in the making, splitting their pre-existing fanbase, without having learned the lessons of 5E. One of the most important lessons being the slow release schedule.

Scoop! Secret information! What’s the PF2 release schedule? How did you discover it? This is a news article in the making! It feels like Watergate!

 

[Remathilis]

My initial impression of Pathfinder 2e leads me to believe that 5e's success is about to slow down quite a bit. There are quite a few D&D players that are not happy with the slow release schedule of 5e, and would prefer more crunch. Pathfinder delivers more crunch. In addition to a new edition Pathfinder has a new video game coming out that looks very impressive, while D&D has nothing modern or exciting coming in the near future.

The one thing that D&D has going for it is brand recognition. The public knows what D&D is. They generally do not know what Pathfinder is. Just like most people order a Coke to drink when they want a cola, even if they prefer Pepsi.

I think that Paizo waited just long enough to observe the primary critiques of 5e so that they can release a Pathfinder 2e that is "better" than 5e. So far I have liked what I have read about it. I would not be surprised if Pathfinder 2e steals a significant chunk of the RPG community veterans away from D&D, while D&D continues to draw newer players into the hobby.

I don't think PF2 is going to be a 5e killer. You'll get some defectors who want a crunchier system (but not as crunchy as PF1) but overall, I think all it will do is remind WotC that competitors are always watching and not to get lazy. Paizo isn't chasing disaffected 5e players (like they did with 3.5 players) but instead and trying to convert their own base to a newer system (and a sizable portion aren't ready to switch from PF1 to 2, the dangers of marketing your brand to people who don't like change). I'm sure we'll see Paizo's market share rise and WotC's dip soon, but I don't think the swing will be large enough for WotC to lose dominance. Keep in mind, there are plenty of "veteran" players who prefer the lighter 5e system over Paizo's rules-heavier ones.

 

[Parmandur]

Scoop! Secret information! What’s the PF2 release schedule? How did you discover it? This is a news article in the making! It feels like Watergate!

Well, if Paizo does adapt a careful, slow release schedule, I'd be impressed. But Mona was jusy talking about regular Bestiary releases in one of those recent articles, as a given. I seriously doubt the train will slow down, and that would not be a feature in PF2's favor.

 

[Morrus]

Well, if Paizo does adapt a careful, slow release schedule, I'd be impressed. But Mona was jusy talking about regular Bestiary releases in one of those recent articles, as a given. I seriously doubt the train will slow down, and that would not be a feature in PF2's favor.

Paizo does just fine, even after the unusual feat of 10 years of an edition. I wouldn’t worry about their business acumen. I think they’ve got that under control. They’re clever folks who have successfully created the second largest RPG company on the planet. I wish I could do that!

 

[Parmandur]

Paizo does just fine, even after the unusual feat of 10 years of an edition. I wouldn’t worry about their business acumen. I think they’ve got that under control. They’re clever folks who have successfully created the second largest RPG company on the planet. I wish I could do that!

I'm sure they'll live one way or another, though the new edition is not looking promising or interesting to me; doubt it will impact 5E much one way or the other, which was the the topic at hand.

 

[Ancalagon]

But... 3e and 4e had the same marketing budget, the same attempts at nostalgia, the same brand appeal, the same art budget, and same ability to be stocked in physical stores.
And while the long public beta was nice, the impact of that is likely only felt for a year or so.

So why is 5e so much bigger than 3e and 4e. Or even 3e & 4e combined.

These are good points but I *strongly* disagree on the nostalgia aspect of 3e and 4e. These were very innovative, very modern games. They did not appeal to nostalgia, perhaps besides a generic "playing D&D" angle. 5e has a return to old school feel that 3e and 4e never had.

 

[Parmandur]

These are good points but I *strongly* disagree on the nostalgia aspect of 3e and 4e. These were very innovative, very modern games. They did not appeal to nostalgia, perhaps besides a generic "playing D&D" angle. 5e has a return to old school feel that 3e and 4e never had.

That is an important point; 3.x and 4E lacked that classic fantasy vibe. 5E managed to get that aesthetic feel while feeling very contemporary and lacking some of the...less fortunate...aspects of 1E/2E aesthetics.