Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion

[MarkB]

I felt like someone could have saved the universe a lot of pain by just asking Thanos "If you've got the power to reshape the universe, why not just double the available resources instead of halving the population? Mathematically it works out the same, only nobody dies."

 

[Joker]

I felt like someone could have saved the universe a lot of pain by just asking Thanos "If you've got the power to reshape the universe, why not just double the available resources instead of halving the population? Mathematically it works out the same, only nobody dies."

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I felt like someone could have saved the universe a lot of pain by just asking Thanos "If you've got the power to reshape the universe, why not just double the available resources instead of halving the population? Mathematically it works out the same, only nobody dies."

1. Can the Infinity Stones actually create something from nothing, or must they convert something into something else? If so, then doubling the resources is fundamentally impossible, since everything in the universe is a form of resource.

2. If they can, or if you find some resources that no one would be able to use (like say, uninhabited star systems far off the path), how do you double the resources? Let's say a planet is overpopulated and lacking in space. So you double the planet's size? But that means double the mass, and suddenly the entire population of the world is suffering under twice their usual weight. You could create a copy of the star system and teleport half of the population to the other star system, but that would cause almost as much anguish as them turning to dust in front of your eyes. And you suddenly get galaxies twice their usual size, which probably wreaks havoc in the long term.

Removing half the population to dust seems a lot less intrusive on a cosmic scale. The amount of mass or energy contained in a single person is a lot less than the mass and energy needed to create the person in the first place.

 

[OB1]

And the real world proves you wrong. Rich nations tend to have a low or even negative population growth despite easily being able to support more people while the poorer a nation is the higher the population growth tends to be.

Right, because rich nations also tend to be well educated and use reason and science to confront the problems of limited resources.

You mean like the Scarlet Witch doesn't actually love Vision, because she sacrificed him to get what she wanted?


I am pretty sure that his methods are pretty flawed, but one thing to consider: When the resources are low, what happens?
- People die of starvation or thirst, leading to great suffering
- People fight over the resources, leading to violence, death, loss of more resources as they get destroyed in conflicts or used up to continue conflicts, and more suffering.

Thanos basically just removes enough people so there is no need to fight over resources. And he can repeat it, if the need arises again.

Pretty sure the Scarlet Witch sacrificed Vision because it's what he wanted, not what she wanted. If Gamora had begged Thanos to kill her so he accomplished his goal, that would have been tragic and heartfelt.

There is one other thing that happens when resources are low, people use reason and science to innovate, adapt, and find new solutions. Those solutions will eventually lead to new problems, but there will be solutions to those problems as well. There is no snap your fingers and the Universe will live happily ever after. Life will constantly come up against challenge, and we have the ability to meet that challenge and beat it.

I think you've completely missed the fact this this story is not done. This is like reading the 1st several issues of an Infinity comic series. Or watching 1/2 of a 5 hour show. And then complaining that everything's not all wrapped up.
Tune in next summer for IW pt2 (or whatever they've changed the name to).

This is exactly my problem with this film. It's not an actual film, it's half of a 2 part TV series finale. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy it, I did. I just expected much more.

 

[Jester David]

This is exactly my problem with this film. It's not an actual film, it's half of a 2 part TV series finale. That's not to say that I didn't enjoy it, I did. I just expected much more.

Which is a temporary complaint. Because it's a year until the next one. Eighteen months from now, this complaint is moot.

And season finale cliffhangers are often very popular. If it works for them, why not here?

 

[Ryujin]

Thanos motivation is far from silly. Sure, there are better ways to solve the problem of overpopulation when you have the power of the gauntled but the general idea that in face of limited resources a low population will enjoy a higher living standard than a high one is sound.

And imo the sacrifices of Thanos are as interesting to see as what the Avengers have to sacrifice. The Soul Stone part was quite a character building moment.

Personally I really liked that Red Skull is back. Ever since The First Avenger I have been saying that he was teleported and not killed.
I wonder if the Captain Marvel movie will play before or after Infinity War.

Given the post credits bumper, I think that Captain Marvel will have to come before the next movie in this series. When I saw it today there were an awful lot of people wondering aloud what the symbol on Fury's "pager" meant and no one was saying, which rather surprised me. A lot of movie fans and not so many comic fans, I guess.

 

[ccs]

Given the post credits bumper, I think that Captain Marvel will have to come before the next movie in this series. When I saw it today there were an awful lot of people wondering aloud what the symbol on Fury's "pager" meant and no one was saying, which rather surprised me. A lot of movie fans and not so many comic fans, I guess.

You are correct.
Captain Marvel is slated for March 2019.
Avengers #4 arrives in May 2019.

Introduction to the movie goers in march & cover her backstory, throw her into saving the universe two months later.

 

[Tonguez]

Pretty sure the Scarlet Witch sacrificed Vision because it's what he wanted, not what she wanted. If Gamora had begged Thanos to kill her so he accomplished his goal, that would have been tragic and heartfelt..

yeah the Thanos loves Gamora thing wasn't very well established, and even the "saving the baby gamora" scene didn't show Thanos being merciful as much as him taking another child soldier on a whim. The story needed something more to show that Thanos actually cared for Gamora so that his choice to sacrifice her was tearing at his Soul instead of just another resource transaction.

A lot of that going on, while there were some nice character moments, they didn't really achieve the deep emotional feels that they should have.

I liked it a lot but the movie was a series of interelated vignettes and the ending while suprising was more surreal than emotional

-I liked the return of Red Skull
-DUnno what was up with Hulk
-and Star Lord losing it and attacking Thanos while the others were mid-assualt was just dumb

 

[OB1]

yeah the Thanos loves Gamora thing wasn't very well established, and even the "saving the baby gamora" scene didn't show Thanos being merciful as much as him taking another child soldier on a whim. The story needed something more to show that Thanos actually cared for Gamora so that his choice to sacrifice her was tearing at his Soul instead of just another resource transaction.

A lot of that going on, while there were some nice character moments, they didn't really achieve the deep emotional feels that they should have.

I liked it a lot but the movie was a series of interelated vignettes and the ending while suprising was more surreal than emotional

This really sums up my feelings exactly. I'd argue that the lack of deep emotional feels comes from the fact that it's half a movie. If you look at say, Empire Strikes Back instead, that's how you do both a serial cliffhanger but have a complete movie unto itself. While I certainly recognize how hard it is to do that effectively, it doesn't excuse the fact that AIW made some very poor choices.

-I liked the return of Red Skull
-DUnno what was up with Hulk
-and Star Lord losing it and attacking Thanos while the others were mid-assualt was just dumb

As for the Hulk, a workmate made it simple for me. Hulk is a bully who got his a** kicked and is now hiding at home behind his mom.

I'm back and forth on Star Lord. I sort of think it was set up in his reaction to Ego killing his mom (blasting Ego instantly without thought), but where that scene was earned through two movies, I'm not so sure I buy the emotional connection between Star Lord and Gamora.

Making a film is hard, making a good film is unbelievably difficult and making a great film requires immense talent, immense dedication and quite a bit of luck. I don't envy anyone having to try and write a story for 22 characters, each played by actors with egos, a Studio looking over your every move and the expectations of millions of fans on your shoulders. But the Russo brothers took it on, and while they put on a good show, they didn't knock it out of the park. And that's okay. They don't all have to be great. But don't make this film the standard.

One other thought. How great would it have been for Loki to have tricked Thanos out of the Gauntlet, went after the rest of the stones himself and used it to set himself up as supreme leader of the Universe. Instead of a brand new boring villain, we get the ultimate Loki.

 

[Derren]

Right, because rich nations also tend to be well educated and use reason and science to confront the problems of limited resources.

Which proves that you are wrong about the population automatically grows to the point of overpopulation in a short time.