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Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
I'm surprised no one remembers Doctor Stranger saying he would let Iron Man and Spider-Man die to save the time stone. The writers and directors really made it clear that Strange ment it and it was foreshawoding.

The reality Doctor Strange saw where the Avengers win is a reality were Thanos gets all the stones and kills randomly half the universe's population, including that one reality where Spider-Man is randomly killed. The death of Spider-Man motivates Iron Man to do all that is possible to revive Peter Parker. That means get the Infinity Gauntlet and revive everyone Thanos has killed, and that also means Iron Man sacrificing himself in the process (probably as tribute to the soul stone as Tony Stark really loves himself and writers won't let him kill Pepper, unless Steve Rogers is the one who agrees to die because Tony loves him and he understands sacrifice must be made to bring back everyone and is a throwback to what was discussed with Vision in this film).

With this scenario what Doctor Strange said about letting Stark and Parker die really comes to pass. He let Spider-Man and Tony Stark die to get the time stone back.

As for Steve Rogers and Thor, they probably also die in the next Avengers film. Althought I would bet Thor has more chances of surviving. Their deaths, and Iron Man's, will mean more once the Gauntlet is dismantled and a page will be turned in the MCU.

I do not mind knowing all of this or knowing that a lot of people were going to die in this film or knowing they were gonna come back to life. I was curious to see how they would do it, who they would chose and how far they would go. I wasn't disappointed.
 

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Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Thanos basically just removes enough people so there is no need to fight over resources.
Based on a discussion in another thread (which admittedly is of no help if the people in charge of Avengers don't read it), Thanos could move mineral-rich asteroids into orbits and/or positions where they would be easy to reach. Vast expenditure of energy necessary, but vast resources available. The hard part: how much resources does each person "need"?
 

Ryujin

Hero
yeah the Thanos loves Gamora thing wasn't very well established, and even the "saving the baby gamora" scene didn't show Thanos being merciful as much as him taking another child soldier on a whim. The story needed something more to show that Thanos actually cared for Gamora so that his choice to sacrifice her was tearing at his Soul instead of just another resource transaction.

A lot of that going on, while there were some nice character moments, they didn't really achieve the deep emotional feels that they should have.

I liked it a lot but the movie was a series of interelated vignettes and the ending while suprising was more surreal than emotional

-I liked the return of Red Skull
-DUnno what was up with Hulk
-and Star Lord losing it and attacking Thanos while the others were mid-assualt was just dumb

The Thanos loves Gamora thing was meant to be set up through the previous two Guardians movies with many comments about how she was his favourite, while Nebula was constantly beaten-down. (Yeah, not sure it was telegraphed very well either.) They tried to build the Starlord-Gamora relationship. To be fair, Starlord has some control issues anyway.

The Hulk thing is fear. Either the Hulk persona is afraid of Thanos or Banner is now just plain afraid, instead of "angry all the time", meaning that he can't just whistle up Hulk whenever he wants.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Which proves that you are wrong about the population automatically grows to the point of overpopulation in a short time.

So then what is Thanos worried about?

Also, I never said populations grow to overpopulation, I said they grow to the size of the resources available.
 

I'm back and forth on Star Lord. I sort of think it was set up in his reaction to Ego killing his mom (blasting Ego instantly without thought), but where that scene was earned through two movies, I'm not so sure I buy the emotional connection between Star Lord and Gamora.
Starlord had fallen pretty hard for Gamora in Guardians 2. Their relationship was a big part of that film. I accepted his anger without hesitation.
Her having feelings for him less so. I'm uncertain if she really loved him or was just telling him what he wanted to hear.

Also, I never said populations grow to overpopulation, I said they grow to the size of the resources available.
Human history is quite full of examples of civilisations that exhausted their resources and collapsed.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Human history is quite full of examples of civilisations that exhausted their resources and collapsed.

I’d ask you to name one, but even if you could I’d just counter that exhausting resources wasn’t what led to collapse but rather inability to adapt and innovate in the face of a changing environment or circumstance.
 

I’d ask you to name one, but even if you could I’d just counter that exhausting resources wasn’t what led to collapse but rather inability to adapt and innovate in the face of a changing environment or circumstance.
Look up the history of Easter Island. That’s the big one.
Otherwise, humans just tend to move on and abandon lands where we’ve depleted all the resources. They adapt by leaving rather than innovating.
 

Here's a thought completely unmentioned.

Hawkeye.

Half the universe's population is gone. Includes his wife and children. Game On.

Just a thought.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
yeah the Thanos loves Gamora thing wasn't very well established, and even the "saving the baby gamora" scene didn't show Thanos being merciful as much as him taking another child soldier on a whim. The story needed something more to show that Thanos actually cared for Gamora so that his choice to sacrifice her was tearing at his Soul instead of just another resource transaction.

Keep in mind that the majority of our view of Gamora's and Thanos's relationship has been based on Gamora's perspective - the playing off of rivalries between her and Nebula, the manipulation, the anger and betrayal. We know about those from her. I'm sure Thanos has a completely different take on them, certainly one colored by him being the Mad Titan and his generally effed up values, but one that he'd probably characterize as love. All I really needed was the look on his face before sacrificing Gamora to know what his feelings for her were and that they would qualify to get him the stone (and possibly the complication of a soul stone toting around Gamora's soul...).

A lot of that going on, while there were some nice character moments, they didn't really achieve the deep emotional feels that they should have.

Depends on your moment. The moments between Wanda and Vision were, I thought, really well done.

-and Star Lord losing it and attacking Thanos while the others were mid-assualt was just dumb

We should already know by now that Peter Quill isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He isn't stupid, but he's not exactly cold and calculating. He's an emotional and impulsive. And unlike OB1, I can see that they've been building an emotional connection between him and Gamora since GotG1 - particularly on Peter's part.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
Here's a thought completely unmentioned.

Hawkeye.

Half the universe's population is gone. Includes his wife and children. Game On.

Just a thought.

Yeah, I think there's a good chance he will have lost at least one. That would motivate him to break the house arrest. Infinity War 2 - we know we've got Thor, Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Widow, and Rocket.

We know Captain Marvel is on her way, Hawkeye's an easy activation. Depending on Ant-Man and Wasp, they could make an appearance too.
Adam Warlock is a possibility too considering we saw him being created in the stinger at the end of GotG2.

Long shot - so I don't think it's terribly likely - Shuri repairs the Vision and he's reactivated.
I'd love to see it, they foreshadowed her potential to do it. It's just a question of will they do it?
 
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MarkB

Legend
yeah the Thanos loves Gamora thing wasn't very well established, and even the "saving the baby gamora" scene didn't show Thanos being merciful as much as him taking another child soldier on a whim. The story needed something more to show that Thanos actually cared for Gamora so that his choice to sacrifice her was tearing at his Soul instead of just another resource transaction.

I felt like the "Gamora kills fake Thanos" scene did reasonably well in setting it up. With the Reality stone to command, he could have played out any number of scenarios to capture her, or simply blown through all her allies with sheer strength. Instead, he set up a scenario that allowed her to kill him, because he genuinely needed to know whether she still cared about him. Which would only have mattered to him if he cared about her.
 

I had assumed (silly me) she would before he "died".

Another thing I am wondering about is The Hulk. Thanos kicked his backend readily and now it seems the Hulk is agraid to come out and fight him.

Is Mr. Fixit afraid?
 

Also thinking about other heroes that may rise to the occation. Marvel Studios is not releasing any further new movie info beyond what is already out there. Could there be new heroes on the way?

Keep thinking a certain smart guy, his girl friend and her brother along with his best friend could be there and get "zapped" in the battle and Fantastic things come of it.

Feige was quoted as they don't want to release new info since it would be all for Phase four. Galactus with Black Panther, Fantastic Four and others would be logical.
 


Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Yeah, I think there's a good chance he will have lost at least one. That would motivate him to break the house arrest. Infinity War 2 - we know we've got Thor, Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Widow, and Rocket.

We know Captain Marvel is on her way, Hawkeye's an easy activation. Depending on Ant-Man and Wasp, they could make an appearance too.
Adam Warlock is a possibility too considering we saw him being created in the stinger at the end of GotG2.

Long shot - so I don't think it's terribly likely - Shuri repairs the Vision and he's reactivated.
I'd love to see it, they foreshadowed her potential to do it. It's just a question of will they do it?

Gwyneth Paltrow was seen on set in a Mo-Cap suit, which suggest she might show up in the Rescue Armour (Iron Man Mk 1616) and Shuri has worn the Black Panther suit while her brother was 'absent'

I'm also wondering how this is going to spill over into Marvel TV, might be a nice time to shake things up and promote some of the TV heroes


Keep in mind that the majority of our view of Gamora's and Thanos's relationship has been based on Gamora's perspective - the playing off of rivalries between her and Nebula, the manipulation, the anger and betrayal. We know about those from her. I'm sure Thanos has a completely different take on them, certainly one colored by him being the Mad Titan and his generally effed up values, but one that he'd probably characterize as love. All I really needed was the look on his face before sacrificing Gamora to know what his feelings for her were and that they would qualify to get him the stone (and possibly the complication of a soul stone toting around Gamora's soul...).

yeah, the whole playing off Nebula and Gamora just seemed like manipulation of Gamoras emotions rather than love, but then perhaps thats because I don't think like a Universe slaying psychopath:p But the idea of Gamoras soul being in the stone is a nice peice of poetry
 

Hussar

Legend
Look up the history of Easter Island. That’s the big one.
Otherwise, humans just tend to move on and abandon lands where we’ve depleted all the resources. They adapt by leaving rather than innovating.

You’re kidding right? There’s a reason the world is supporting ten times the population now than it had even a century or two ago.

Adaptation and innovation.

I’m not saying that famine isn’t a thing. It certainly is. But our ability to sustain population has increased to unimaginable levels in the past century.

What “moving on” have you seen in the past century?
 

I enjoyed the movie a lot, and I genuinely liked Thanos. After the movie I joked that I thought the movie ended on a positive note, since the main character won. And that is perhaps what I like best; Thanos seems like the main character, and the Avengers are merely getting in his way.

Other positives:

-Among all the action, there is plenty of meaningful dialogue.
-Every character gets to shine.
-They set Thanos up as a truly epic threat. It never feels like a fair fight.
-I was never bothered by Thanos being an all CGI character.
-They subverted all my expectations regarding who lives and dies.
-I loved the fake out of almost killing Tony Stark.
-I loved the fake out of almost killing Vision, and then killing him anyway later.
-Spidey's death was pretty sad.
-They show just how utterly terrifying and insane the powers of all Infinity Stones combined are.

However, I have two negatives:

-All the deaths are undercut by the magic relic that can alter reality and rewind time. Its like one big red-con device that is in your face throughout the movie. It makes you not really care much about any of the deaths, since you know just how easy and plausible it is for them to just be resurrected again in the second movie.
-There are several special effect shots where they've pasted an actor's head on a CGI body, and you can really tell. Especially when we saw Mark Ruffulo's head peeping out of the top of the Hulk-Buster suit near the end. That looked fake as all hell.
 

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
You’re kidding right? There’s a reason the world is supporting ten times the population now than it had even a century or two ago.

Adaptation and innovation.

I’m not saying that famine isn’t a thing. It certainly is. But our ability to sustain population has increased to unimaginable levels in the past century.

What “moving on” have you seen in the past century?

How long can the statu quo last with finite resources and infinite needs? 100 years is rater young for a civilisation.
 

Devil's Advocate Time: Did Thanos think of the improved use or greater amounts of resources also? Would that teach / educate anyone by just "giving" them their goodies?

He did it this way to put fear and terror in our hearts so that WE would learn to quell population.

Just sayin'......
 

You’re kidding right? There’s a reason the world is supporting ten times the population now than it had even a century or two ago.

Adaptation and innovation.

I’m not saying that famine isn’t a thing. It certainly is. But our ability to sustain population has increased to unimaginable levels in the past century.

What “moving on” have you seen in the past century?
“The past century”. Also known as 0.05% of the lifespan of humanity.
Permanent settlements, aka cities, have only existed for maybe 8% of humanity’s time on Earth.

Humanity survives, the culture does not. We’re spread out enough now that no one disaster will doom all of humanity, but our foolishness has killed numerous civilizations in the past. The Anasazi, the Indus Valley civilization, Rapa Nui, Olmecs, the Mayans, and Sumeria. Likely more who have been forgotten by time.
As Arnold Toynbee said “great civilizations are not murdered. They commit suicide.”
Malthusian collapse isn’t the only reasons civilizations collapse. But it’s a big one.

And the above is just talking food. It’s ignoring all the other scare resources that have driven wars and conflicts. We’re 30 years past Peak Oil and consumptions has only increased. To say nothing of the rare elements necassary for modern electronics.

During our time, humanity still managed to turn the cradle of civilization into desert through improper agriculture, and almost did it again to North America with poor farming techniques (see the Dirty Thirties/ Dustbowl). We adapted quick enough to recover from the latter but not the former.

Throughout all of human history, in general humanity adapts... but it also didn’t grow much. The world population was tiny for most of recorded history, barely using the potential resources of the planet. But even then, humanity continually moved and spread across the world.
Our population was fairly stable until the 1700 when it began to increase before shooting up in the 20th Century. From 2 billion to 6 billion in a century. It will be 8 billion by 2024.
We’ve gone past the period when poor resource management will doom a city state.
 

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