Level Advancement and In-Campaign Time

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I've run and played a couple 5E campaigns now, and one thing that bothers me a bit (and this bothered me in 3E too) is how quickly players advance through the levels relative to the passage of time within the campaign world. At standard number of encounters per day or per adventure, and using the guide for how adventured are packed together the way the hardcover campaigns pack them in, you can advance from Level 1 to Level 20 inside an in-campaign year.

If you think about, that's crazy! Not only is that now how real life works, that's not even how any of the fiction that D&D is based on works. Aragorn wandered the Wild for decades. Conan became a King as an old man. Paksenarrion was on campaign for years. The companions that met at the Inn of the Last Home had been separated for five years.

Adventures should be spaced out. The timing is yearly or seasonal, not penciled into a day calendar.

I don't really think about it. Not that I run campaigns from 1st to 20th most of the time, but if it happened in a year of game time, that's fine. Some really important stuff must be going on for that to happen which means it should be pretty exciting.

I don't have a care for how real life works since we're not playing a game based on real life, or at least, only somewhat so. I'm also not bothered by how long Aragorn or Conan knocked about - D&D is its own thing in my view, even if those are influences.

My biggest concern is real time when it comes to campaigns, so that's what I focus on. How much content can we pack into a 4-hour weekly session, how many sessions to fully explore this campaign concept, etc. And then I think about what time pressures in-game I can include to create tension and adjust difficulty. The time it takes to level is largely based on player choice - how much they get after that XP.

As a point of data in case anyone's interested, my current campaign is on Day 72 since the PCs arrived in Sigil from the prime world they once called home. Most PCs arrived in Sigil at 3rd level and are now 6th level (though some characters and backup characters are lower level). My town-to-dungeon campaign prior to this campaign ran 20 weeks of game time and the characters went from 1st to (at most) 8th level. I have a player pool, meaning I have more players than seats at a given session. And those players usually have more than one character that they will swap out from time to time. This also slows down the rate of advancement relative to the campaign timeline in my eperience as you note in your point E.
 
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Shiroiken

Legend
If you have such an issue with it, don't run an epic adventure that forces PCs to manically run around from level 1-20 without a break. Run several adventures that have weeks, months, or even years between them. Adventures in Middle Earth uses this standard, with each adventure (and subsequent downtime) taking up a year. The Training Downtime option in XGtE can slow down adventuring as well, forcing time for leveling up.

Myself, I only allow characters to level up after an adventure, and if you push things such that you would get enough XP to skip a level, instead you stop gaining XP at 1 short of that level. As I run a West Marches style game, this really hasn't been an issue. I'm also considering adding the Training downtime option as well, forcing people to play different characters while their current one levels.

That’s one thing that’s bothered me for a long time. By the tables of 1e/2e, it was possible to have a 20th level 16-year-old fighter, because no one bothered to do anything about the passing of time.
I don't know about 2E, but that's not correct for 1E. In 1E, it was strongly suggested that game time passed at a 1:1 ratio to real time between sessions (DMG pg 37). Even if you ignore that suggestion, you had to take 1-4 weeks of time training (DMG pg 86). Plus the cost of that training, which at low levels was usually more than you could afford (since you gained XP from treasure), so you had to adventure to get the money to level (and you earned 0 XP in the meantime, also DMG pg 86). Like much of 1E, I suspect that most DM's handwaved this away (because it really wasn't much fun), and THAT is what actually caused the issue.

As you said tracking time isn't much fun for most people, but it's up the DM to take on that responsibility.

Well, there is fiction that moves THAT fast:

Wheel of Time.

The entire duration of that massive epic, from leaving the Two Rivers to the battle of Tarmon Gai'don, was a whopping two years and seven months. Rand Al'Thor goes from 1st to 20th before he's old enough to drink.

So either one works; just depends what pace you prefer...
Well, the actual time varied, because Tarmon Gai'don took place over hours (Rand)/days (Matt)/months (Perrin) depending on how far from the Bore you were during it. Oh, "drinking age" wasn't a thing, because after being gone from the Two Rivers for about a year, Perrin was offered apple brandy, which he'd been limited with before (sips vs. a full cup). Yes I'm being overly technical... sue me :p
 

Tyler Do'Urden

Soap Maker
"Everyone in Wot who wasn't one of the half-dozen main young protagonists advanced more like the way I'm describing. Lan took decades to become the best swordsman in the world. The non-protagonist Aes Sedai studied at the Tower for decades or even over a century. Etc. "

Well, yeah, but are the characters normies or ta'veren?

I take them to be ta'veren. Of course, if you want normie-gaming, you can have that too... but I guess the RAW assumes that our PCs are the unique snowflakes at the heart of the campaign.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
1) I want months or years, not three days.
The cumulative scheme would reach 1 month 'training' to level up by the time you're going from 7th to 8th, @ 27 days.
Ugh, more details and bookkeeping. No one got time for that.
Heh. It's D&D, if you want to fill a lot of time with something, there's going to be bookkeeping. ;)

Of course, nothing at all stops you from hand-waving in longer periods between adventures becoming available.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
In my campaign the party went from level 2 to level 7 in a bit less than a year... anything faster than that seems ludicrous to me.

Edit: this is in game time. Out of game it has been 1.5 year, 3 hour sessions every 2 weeks.
 
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pogre

Legend
I actually appreciate the faster leveling in D&D. It gives a variety of gaming experiences over a shorter period of time. Again, I totally understand the reasons folks prefer slower advancement.

I do most of my down and dirty / grim and gritty gaming with WFRP.

I understand what you folks are saying, but I just view PCs who rise quickly as fated heroes of the world. If such fast advancement was available to all - as you say - it would really jar the world view.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
First off, I'll just say that I'm 100% in agreement with your assessment of the problem, and it's not just limited to 5e: 1e-2e were fast even though there were training rules etc., and 3e-4e were super-fast much like 5e.

That said, I'm not quite 100% on board with your solutions, though you've hit some good ideas. Notes and thoughts below...

1) PCs do not advance in level during an adventure. The level you start the adventure in is the level you are for that adventure. (The exception is Levels 1-3. Arguably, 5E characters aren't fully themselves at Level 1, so you can advance up to Level 3 within an adventure).
From this and other parts of your post I gather you don't track xp but instead just have everyone level at the same time. I do track individual xp, and not everybody gets the same every time depending on what the PCs have actually participated in.

However, that's my thing, not yours. With yours, my worry would be that if you're using prepublished modules that expect the PCs to be level x at the start and level x + 2 or x + 3 at the end you might find the start bits of the module are too easy, or the end bits are too tough, or even both; and thus you'll have to do some tweaking.

2) Extended periods of downtime between adventures/levels. The default assumption is that you have a role in the campaign world (usually related to your Background), and that's what you spend most of the time doing. There aren't professional adventurers who are adventuring all the time. Adventures are something you go on when the opportunity arises. Like Bilbo's journey to the Lonely Mountain, or Flint Fireforge letting his smithy go cold.
Excellent - provided you can convince the players/PCs to go along with it; it would be a bit heavy-handed to outright force this on them. Some players see their PCs either as professional adventurers for life, or want to use a quick few years of adventuring to secure their fame and fortune for life so they can go on to other long-term non-adventuring pursuits.

3) Level up two levels between adventures. Adventures start at Levels 1, 5, 7, 9, etc.
See above. Also, I'm not married to the idea of every PC always having to be the same level as every other PC.

4) Give players the flexibility to go on side-quests during the off season, or craft items, or start building a castle or temple or something. Stuff that takes weeks, months, or years. You can get started with that at the Level 3-5 downtime. No need to wait for when the PC is retired and no one cares anymore.
Yes yes yes!

As DM, you can facilitate this by making yourself available on non-session nights for pub or coffeehouse sessions dealing just with one player's character(s). Nobody other than Joe really wants to sit through a game session that's all just you and Joe designing and building Tobias' (Joe's PC) castle, and it's hard to multi-task these things (says me, who's tried it once too often). But if you and Joe go for a beer one night and you each bring your game stuff along, Joe's castle gets built and nobody gets bored. :)

5) Introduce the trope that there's a mechanism why which the gang gets back together. "Evil is afoot. Old allies need your help. Meet me in Palanthus on the 1st of April."
Another option, that I've done in the past with reasonable success, is that instead of the PCs having scattered home bases try to ensure they end up with a common home base - at the very least all in the same town - and have this become a Known Thing around the region, so as and when needed adventures can in effect come to them.

This has a number of benefits.

A) Fictionally, this seasonable timing is just more believable in a lot of ways. It's actually a suspension of disbelief that someone can become a master of their craft in a month.
Absolutely.

B) It gives the world time to grow and react to the things the PCs do. When they're level 7 they can return to the castle they cleared of monsters at levels 3 or 5 and see that people have moved in and resettled the area. The songs of their heroic deeds have time to be composed and precede them. Their enemies have time to lay and grow more complex plots to stop them. Etc.
Except the PCs aren't dumb; and they'll logically want to proactively press whatever advantage they've gained over their enemies before said enemies have time to regroup and lay new plots. This is where it gets tricky...but there's an answer here too:

Instead of single adventures, make the long break points come between adventure paths such that when they take a break they've finished off whatever main enemy was the focus of the last series of adventures. That way they can take their downtime without having to look over their shoulders all the time, and when the next adventures come calling it's a fresh start on a new story.

Within an adventure path, you can still have (and enforce!) shorter breaks simply by requiring training to advance in level. Training - and the travel to and from such - can easily eat up a month or two per level at low-mid levels; though unfortunately once they get teleport and other long-range transport this advantage goes away. This would also blow up your idea of jumping multiple levels at a time, a trade-off that IMO is probably worth it.

C) No tracking XP! Just don't even worry about it.
I see this as a bug, not a feature. :)

D) Opens up new parts of the game, like strongholds or extended research and crafting.
Absolutely! (though have a care for your item crafting rules, lest your PCs overpower themselves with the items they make) :)

E) Allows players to switch out PCs within the fiction. Tired of that human fighter? I guess she joined the Blue Dragonarmy during the years of separation. But look, a cleric has walked into the Inn and needs our help.
This has never really been much of a problem for us. PC turnover is a known fact of life, and players each usually have several to choose from - each of different levels and capabilities, usually.

F) Episodic campaigns. This is preference, but if you share this preference for smaller, more episodic adventures rather than grand campaign arcs, this arrangement is perfect.
You can do this anyway. The main difference is you're putting more time between episodes, which is great.

Reading between the lines, I'm also guessing you want the campaign to last longer overall. Answer here, of course, is to slow down the advance rate. Instead of level 5 just being one adventure, make it a start-to-end adventure path (say, four modules culminating in a BBEG fight which ties off that arc) and have 'em bump to 6th partway through.

Lanefan
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I'm not actually trying to change the pace of individual adventures or how healing works.
You might want to take a long look at this, however, as it can in a small way help solve your problem.

Instead of having everything heal on an overnight rest, make it take longer. Much longer, if needs must. This alone can take what would have been a three-day dungeon-crawl adventure and spin it out over a few months: they keep having to wait to recover, and-or go all the way back to town for healing or new recruits. With this, you could have a summer campaign season (a short string of adventures each taking a month or so to complete) and a winter downtime season where they take half a year off.

Ugh, more details and bookkeeping. No one got time for that.
Don't you already carefully track time etc. within your game world?

Narratively, "Next Spring" is fine. I don't need my players saying "Sorry, I can't go on an adventure until at least the 15th of May".
This can put some interesting choices on to the players/PCs if the by-date deadlines are used, however: a PC is tied up until May 15 but on May 2 a messenger arrives in town requiring brave adventurers NOW. Does the PC abandon what she's doing? Or does the party wait for her, and leave on the 16th or leave without her on the 3rd?
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
As a point of data in case anyone's interested, my current campaign is on Day 72 since the PCs arrived in Sigil from the prime world they once called home. Most PCs arrived in Sigil at 3rd level and are now 6th level (though some characters and backup characters are lower level). My town-to-dungeon campaign prior to this campaign ran 20 weeks of game time and the characters went from 1st to (at most) 8th level.
By comparison, my current campaign's been going for about 4-and-a-half years in game-world time and the active PCs are averaging about 8th level, with the highest at 10th.

I have a player pool, meaning I have more players than seats at a given session. And those players usually have more than one character that they will swap out from time to time. This also slows down the rate of advancement relative to the campaign timeline in my eperience as you note in your point E.
Getting your players to cycle through characters (or even have more than one active party where you switch back and forth from one to the other every so often) is an excellent way to slow down the overall advance rate.

But all the players have to buy in to the cycling, otherwise over the long term you'll end up with some serious in-party balance headaches.

Lanefan
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Getting your players to cycle through characters (or even have more than one active party where you switch back and forth from one to the other every so often) is an excellent way to slow down the overall advance rate.

But all the players have to buy in to the cycling, otherwise over the long term you'll end up with some serious in-party balance headaches.

That's not really a big deal in D&D 5e. I've seen up to a 7-level differential and it doesn't amount to much except that the lower-level PC needs to be a little more cautious when big damage-dealing monsters come out. And not even for that long as they catch up levels fast.
 

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